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New Amazon Data Center Is Set to Have the Most Polluting Power Plant in the U.S.

nytimes.com

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Re: New Amazon Data Center Is Set to Have the Most Polluting Power Plant in the U.S.

#301

Post by ipaddr »

surgical_fire wrote: post #246
ipaddr wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> The natives in Europe are white. You are bundling a lot of ethnicities, many of those who historically had major grievances amongst themselves, in race bullshit very specific to the US. A "white" label is very meaningless this side of the pond. I have little patience for this shit, the US truly is a sick place if your rhetoric is what it produces.

I understand white people not identifying with each other and supporting each other. Other racial groups stick together and that's why you are hearing people say wake up from across the pond.

In the end what you don't value will disappear including your nation.

Re: New Amazon Data Center Is Set to Have the Most Polluting Power Plant in the U.S.

#302

Post by andsoitis »

ipaddr wrote: post #238
andsoitis wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If I were European then I guess I'd find this rather more worrying than brown people moving in What does "brown people" mean? It seems like such a superficially racist characterization.

In Europe it means Muslims and in North America is means South American. In China it means Indians.

> In Europe it means Muslims and in North America is means South American. In China it means Indians.

Interesting. Thanks, I didn’t know that the Chinese used the phrase “brown people” to refer to Indians. Or that Mexicans (part of North America) use “brown people” to mean South Americans.

It seems such a weird phrase to use. Is it white people who use the phrase? Or also brown people themselves? What about sub-Saharan Africa? Do they have a group they label “brown people”?

Thanks for educating me.

Re: New Amazon Data Center Is Set to Have the Most Polluting Power Plant in the U.S.

#303

Post by ipaddr »

vrganj wrote: post #276
ipaddr wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> The natives in Europe are white. This is such a silly way to out yourself as absolutely clueless. I would invite you to go to Croatia and explain to them how they're the same ethnicity as Serbians and they even speak the same goddamn language . Please stop making grand proclamations about how our continent should act when it's obvious you don't understand even the most basic conditions.

If we went to Croatia and Serbia both wouldn't concern themselves white or they wouldn't consider the other as white? What would they call themselves?

I think they would consider themselves white from a different nations. Many north american natives come from different tribes but they are still Indian. Same thing.

Re: New Amazon Data Center Is Set to Have the Most Polluting Power Plant in the U.S.

#304

Post by blooalien »

xyzelement wrote: post #259
bdangubic wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

canada and norway for sure but you probably don’t want to be ethnic minority anywhere unfortunately

What's an example of an ethnic minority that's better off in Canada vs US

> What's an example of an ethnic minority that's better off in Canada vs US

Considering our current "leadership" here in the USA, probably any minority with any shade of "brown" to their skin-tone?

Re: New Amazon Data Center Is Set to Have the Most Polluting Power Plant in the U.S.

#305

Post by Schiendelman »

MrToadMan wrote: post #62
Schiendelman wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's because the permits are easier to get. It's very hard to get people to organize to make renewable energy permitting easier.

In some cases, aren’t the permits not even being sought? Eg https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/pollution-musks-unper...

Sure, you don't pay millions of dollars in engineering for a permit you obviously aren't going to be able to get. That's a big part of the problem, they're unpredictable.

Re: New Amazon Data Center Is Set to Have the Most Polluting Power Plant in the U.S.

#306

Post by xyzelement »

blooalien wrote: post #304
xyzelement wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's an example of an ethnic minority that's better off in Canada vs US

> What's an example of an ethnic minority that's better off in Canada vs US Considering our current "leadership" here in the USA, probably any minority with any shade of "brown" to their skin-tone?

What are you even talking about?

Re: New Amazon Data Center Is Set to Have the Most Polluting Power Plant in the U.S.

#307

Post by skrause »

brikym wrote: post #290
ViewTrick1002 wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The world isn’t building nuclear power. It’s simply too slow to build and expensive to be relevant.

That's not true though. China has ~20 plants under construction.

In 2025 China built 696 TWh of new wind + solar power and 13 TWh of new nuclear power. So to a first approximation it's fair to say that even China isn't really building out nuclear power anymore.

Re: New Amazon Data Center Is Set to Have the Most Polluting Power Plant in the U.S.

#308

Post by blooalien »

wegwerper wrote: post #94
vineyardmike wrote: post #9

Those in power seem to think that a compute advantage is necessary to maintain economic advantage. Despite this, the voters universally hate data centers, so much so that both NY and TX have data center construction moratoriums. Despite this, those in power refuse any environmentally aware energy policy nor water policy. Despite this, companies have been trying to be environmentally aware for either moral or marketin…

A country is but the sum of its people - and this american people have gotten what they voted for. Nice opportunity for the rest of the world, though.

> ... and this American people have gotten what they voted for.

Probably one of the biggest flaws of a Democratic system is that a voting majority can mandate a situation that harms literally everyone against the will of everyone else even when those harms are well documented and absolutely provable.

"The majority voted for it" isn't a great answer for the question "Why exactly are we letting the bus driver drive us all over this cliff edge to our fiery deaths?"

"Stop the bus! I want off!"

"Nope. The vote's done. You're stuck with the result."

"Well, what if I voted against driving over the cliff edge?"

"Nope. Majority rules. We all die now."

Re: New Amazon Data Center Is Set to Have the Most Polluting Power Plant in the U.S.

#309

Post by defrost »

blooalien wrote: post #308
wegwerper wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A country is but the sum of its people - and this american people have gotten what they voted for. Nice opportunity for the rest of the world, though.

> ... and this American people have gotten what they voted for. Probably one of the biggest flaws of a Democratic system is that a voting majority can mandate a situation that harms literally everyone against the will of everyone else even when those harms are well documented and absolutely provable. "The majority voted for it" isn't a great answer for the question "Why exactly are we letting the bus driver drive us…

Bear in mind the US electoral system is far from the best that can done.

Not all democracies are equal and the US system is barely "democratic" - it's spiralled in a two party not broadly representative Hotelling's Law swampland.

Re: New Amazon Data Center Is Set to Have the Most Polluting Power Plant in the U.S.

#310

Post by hahahaa »

fallingbananna wrote: post #119
DGAP wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Renewables require storage because they are bursty - sun goes down, wind stops blowing. This is more expensive than just burning as much nat gas as you need.

Presumably, the data center usage could also be bursty, right? More people will be using AI during the (work)day, than at midnight. Then they could do half solar, half gas. Also "more expensive" when it comes to solar isn't meaningful until you also consider timeframe. Solar panels pay themselves off in a few years, and after that they basically generate "free" electricity. Gas never becomes cheaper or free, every ye…

I doubt it will be bursty.

First: global usage.

Next: I even wonder why frontiers labs don't sell batch processing and spot prices to keep 100% utilisation. If they do that and I suspect they will it will be 24/7 maxxed.

Imagine this: Fable at 98% discount because but you need to wait. Then imagine: bots that scan your tickets for easy low priority tasks to do when those cheap tokens come.

Let alone research batch compute needs. Training and so on.

One concept will drive this shift: GAAP profitability.

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