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New Amazon Data Center Is Set to Have the Most Polluting Power Plant in the U.S.

nytimes.com

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Re: New Amazon Data Center Is Set to Have the Most Polluting Power Plant in the U.S.

#111

Post by cindyllm »

embedding-shape wrote: post #72
tomComb wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems wrong that Amazon should get in trouble for this when it was XAI that began this new race to the bottom. Peoplecheered xAI on and admired how quickly they were able to move, without much regard to the methods or legality. IMO competitors had no choice but to respond in kind when they see XAI not just getting away with it, but also getting a pass on legal issues.

> It seems wrong that Amazon should get in trouble for this when it was XAI that began this new race to the bottom. Who gives a shit who started it? The ones who continue engaging in it, should clearly be punished as they're working against humanity's best interest of keeping this planet survivable. If you're one of the largest companies in the world, constantly brag about how environmental friendly you are and how m…

[dead]

Re: New Amazon Data Center Is Set to Have the Most Polluting Power Plant in the U.S.

#112

Post by xyzelement »

amarcheschi wrote: post #88
stevesimmons wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speaking as a European, current foreign policy is not "reducing trust in America as a reliable and stable partner". It has already reduced trust to rock bottom. It's hard to see how much worse it could get, short of outright invasion or allying with Russia. Just this week, amongst other news: * America's useless adventures in Iran have used up so many Patriot missiles there aren't any left to defend Kyiv against Russ…

I feel it is hard to grasp for an American how much perception of US shifted in eu. This is just anedoctal of course, but a famous Italian singer famous for having written a song about American and sexual liberation decades ago, wrote an updated version. The former is "America", the latter is "America INC." You can guess which one depicts America in a bad light. I wouldn't have expected a famous singer to make such a…

[flagged]

Re: New Amazon Data Center Is Set to Have the Most Polluting Power Plant in the U.S.

#113

Post by gruez »

inigyou wrote: post #52
t0mas88 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The overall American economy is going to pay the price in the long term. And current foreign policy is reducing trust in America as a reliable and stable partner, which will make things even worse.

Well yeah, it's basically locked in now that in 50 years America won't be a world power any more. It'll be in a similar place to Canada at best.

>in 50 years America won't be a world power any more. It'll be in a similar place to Canada at best.

What's going to replace it? Rapidly aging China?

https://www.economist.com/cdn-cgi/image/width=600,quality=80...

https://www.economist.com/cdn-cgi/image/width=600,quality=80...

https://www.economist.com/cdn-cgi/image/width=600,quality=10...

Re: New Amazon Data Center Is Set to Have the Most Polluting Power Plant in the U.S.

#114

Post by quickthrowman »

inigyou wrote: post #55
solenoid0937 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is just pure histrionics, you have no understanding whatsoever of the scale of data center water consumption, electricity consumption, new capacity coming online, etc.

How much water does a DC use?

All US data center water usage is less than the total water used for golf courses or the total water used to grow alfalfa. Less water used in evaporative cooling means more electricity is used for cooling given that the efficiency almost doubles if you add evaporative cooling to a chilled water loop.

It’s bad to pump non-renewable fossil aquifer water in Arizona for evaporative cooling, but using cooling towers in an area that gets 30” or more of precipitation per year is probably not going to hurt anything.

Re: New Amazon Data Center Is Set to Have the Most Polluting Power Plant in the U.S.

#115

Post by Hnrobert42 »

gruez wrote: post #113
inigyou wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well yeah, it's basically locked in now that in 50 years America won't be a world power any more. It'll be in a similar place to Canada at best.

>in 50 years America won't be a world power any more. It'll be in a similar place to Canada at best. What's going to replace it? Rapidly aging China? https://www.economist.com/cdn-cgi/image/width=600,quality=80... https://www.economist.com/cdn-cgi/image/width=600,quality=80... https://www.economist.com/cdn-cgi/image/width=600,quality=10...

Isn't the US also approaching a peak?

https://www.reuters.com/graphics/USA-POPULATION/AGING/gdpzao...

There's so many ways to slice the data, I'm not sure there's an apples-to-apples comparison between US and China. However, it's fair to say both economies face demographic headwinds.

Re: New Amazon Data Center Is Set to Have the Most Polluting Power Plant in the U.S.

#116

Post by andyjohnson0 »

lee_ars wrote: post #27
mocana wrote: post #11

Ok. A serious question. I frequently hear that wind and solar are the cheapest forms of electricity. Then why are they using gas turbines? Is it because they can generate more power with a smaller real estate footprint?

Texas specifically has heavily politicized and demonized wind power, in spite of having massive successes with it prior to 2016 and being a leading producer of it. Solar isn't as bad, but is still seen as "leftist." The political landscape in TX is vastly more friendly to natural gas. In other words, they are using gas turbines because the politicians are stupid.

I often wonder why conservatives have such a problem with renewable energy.

I can certainly believe that oil and gas pay better bribes, and that this incentivises a certain kind of politician who seem to be over-represented among conservatives in the US. But that doesn't explain the widespread dislike among the conservative end of the general population. Is it just groupthink or Overton Window -nudging using social media? Or is there something more psychological going on? Some kind of disgust reaction?

Re: New Amazon Data Center Is Set to Have the Most Polluting Power Plant in the U.S.

#117

Post by mschuster91 »

xyzelement wrote: post #112
amarcheschi wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel it is hard to grasp for an American how much perception of US shifted in eu. This is just anedoctal of course, but a famous Italian singer famous for having written a song about American and sexual liberation decades ago, wrote an updated version. The former is "America", the latter is "America INC." You can guess which one depicts America in a bad light. I wouldn't have expected a famous singer to make such a…

[flagged]

> Will my kids be an ethnic minority in their own country in the next generation

I didn’t expect having to read great replacement bullshit on Hacker News. JFC do some napkin math, it’s utter nonsense.

Re: New Amazon Data Center Is Set to Have the Most Polluting Power Plant in the U.S.

#118

Post by quickthrowman »

cogman10 wrote: post #73
Permit wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Despite this, those in power refuse any environmentally aware energy policy nor water policy. Can you tell me how much water a data center uses? If you have strong opinion on the construction of data centers I hope you can answer this basic question about data centers. (Many opposed to them cannot)

Depends on the cooling system, but around 1 to 9L per kwh. [1] A lot, but not all, of these datacenters are using evaporative cooling, which is what kicks their water usage so high. So a 40MW datacenter will consume around 4 million liters of water per day if it is evaporatively cooled. [1] https://www.fwpcoa.org/content.aspx?page_id=5&club_id=859275...

As a comparison, one acre of alfalfa growing year round in California uses about 5*325000=1,625,000 gallons of water a year for four harvests, 4400 gallons of water per day per acre.

There’s around a million acres of alfalfa grown in California for a total water usage of 1,625,000*1,000,000=1.625×10¹² gallons (or 5 million acre-feet) per year.

365 million gallons of water per year for one data center is 1000 acre feet of water. California’s alfalfa crop uses as much water as 5,000 of these data centers.

Re: New Amazon Data Center Is Set to Have the Most Polluting Power Plant in the U.S.

#119

Post by fallingbananna »

DGAP wrote: post #34
mocana wrote: post #11

Ok. A serious question. I frequently hear that wind and solar are the cheapest forms of electricity. Then why are they using gas turbines? Is it because they can generate more power with a smaller real estate footprint?

Renewables require storage because they are bursty - sun goes down, wind stops blowing. This is more expensive than just burning as much nat gas as you need.

Presumably, the data center usage could also be bursty, right?

More people will be using AI during the (work)day, than at midnight. Then they could do half solar, half gas.

Also "more expensive" when it comes to solar isn't meaningful until you also consider timeframe. Solar panels pay themselves off in a few years, and after that they basically generate "free" electricity. Gas never becomes cheaper or free, every year it will cost money.

Re: New Amazon Data Center Is Set to Have the Most Polluting Power Plant in the U.S.

#120

Post by Hnrobert42 »

stevesimmons wrote: post #67
t0mas88 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The overall American economy is going to pay the price in the long term. And current foreign policy is reducing trust in America as a reliable and stable partner, which will make things even worse.

Speaking as a European, current foreign policy is not "reducing trust in America as a reliable and stable partner". It has already reduced trust to rock bottom. It's hard to see how much worse it could get, short of outright invasion or allying with Russia. Just this week, amongst other news: * America's useless adventures in Iran have used up so many Patriot missiles there aren't any left to defend Kyiv against Russ…

That is an indisputably rough list, and I'm sorry that's your conclusion.

It's tough being here and feeling powerless to stop it. Beyond voting, campaign donations, judicious choice of employment, etc.

Anyhow, you're welcome back should you change your mind. In my book, anyway.

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