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New Amazon Data Center Is Set to Have the Most Polluting Power Plant in the U.S.

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181–190 of 294 posts

Re: New Amazon Data Center Is Set to Have the Most Polluting Power Plant in the U.S.

#181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

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The US has been the foundation of European security since the beginning of NATO. Now Europe has good reason to think that American security guarantees are no longer reliable, and the US president keeps threatening to invade a European country, while Russia fights a war of aggression nearby. If I were European then I guess I'd find this rather more worrying than brown people moving in, or the struggles of car companie…

> If I were European then I guess I'd find this rather more worrying than brown people moving in

What does "brown people" mean? It seems like such a superficially racist characterization.

Re: New Amazon Data Center Is Set to Have the Most Polluting Power Plant in the U.S.

#182
post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>in 50 years America won't be a world power any more. It'll be in a similar place to Canada at best. What's going to replace it? Rapidly aging China? https://www.economist.com/cdn-cgi/image/width=600,quality=80... https://www.economist.com/cdn-cgi/image/width=600,quality=80... https://www.economist.com/cdn-cgi/image/width=600,quality=10...

> What's going to replace it? I'm not sure if I'm mis-reading your comment, but: The idea that you "need a single extremely powerful country to replace it or the US will stay in its position" just doesn't add up. I'm not fully sure if that is what you meant but I have seen that argument a few times. _There doesn't need to be a replacement._ For most of the worlds history there wasn't a single leading world supper pow…

>The idea that you "need a single extremely powerful country to replace it or the US will stay in its position" just doesn't add up. I'm not fully sure if that is what you meant but I have seen that argument a few times.

The OP goes further than merely claiming that US will lose its spot as the top power. It claims it won't be a world power at all:

>in 50 years America won't be a world power any more. It'll be in a similar place to Canada at best

For reference, Canada ranks #11 in GDP, below Russia and even Brazil. On military spending it ranks #16, below Poland and Spain. It doesn't have nukes. To suggest US will ever come close to that in 50 years is laughable.

Re: New Amazon Data Center Is Set to Have the Most Polluting Power Plant in the U.S.

#183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Will my kids be an ethnic minority in their own country in the next generation - and if so, what's that going to be like for them? What about this is an essential concern for you? Like, what are the potential harms?

> > Will my kids be an ethnic minority in their own country in the next generation - and if so, what's that going to be like for them? > What about this is an essential concern for you? Like, what are the potential harms? European countries take great care in maintaining and strengthening their traditions and cultural heritage. That would be at risk. Now, whether or not that actually matters or not is debatable, but…

This fear of "the others" that don't look like us or dare to have their own culture coming and "stealing" your cake has been used as a cheap distraction tactic for ages. It backfired for Germany, it's gonna backfire for the US.

I really like this metaphor:

A politician, a voter, and an immigrant are at a BBQ. There's 100 sausages on the grill. The politician goes up, takes 99 sausages, turns to the voter and says "quick, that immigrant is gonna steal your sausage".

It's truly frustrating how effective it is to distract the general population by just inciting fear like that.

I lived all over the place after growing up in the Catholic German country side. I think the places most afraid from cultural dilution are the ones that needed it the most.

It's also so funny how folks in the US keep forgetting that they literally used to be immigrants of all sorts of origins and what made them so successful is leveraging the diverse perspectives. Most of this whole AI boom is based on work from people that came to the US from less privileged places all working together for something greater than them.

Re: New Amazon Data Center Is Set to Have the Most Polluting Power Plant in the U.S.

#184

Those in power seem to think that a compute advantage is necessary to maintain economic advantage. Despite this, the voters universally hate data centers, so much so that both NY and TX have data center construction moratoriums. Despite this, those in power refuse any environmentally aware energy policy nor water policy. Despite this, companies have been trying to be environmentally aware for either moral or marketin…

Look to Australia if you want to see how these energy policies work out in the long run. Energy is big money. Anything that disrupts the status quo is immediately vilified. It got to the point that our major party at the time lead a “gas fired” green energy policy. They got voted out, the new guys implemented a subsidised home battery policy. In the space of a year it has destroyed the economics of a carbon fuelled g…

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Re: New Amazon Data Center Is Set to Have the Most Polluting Power Plant in the U.S.

#185
post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's pervasive. Especially when it is people from the US commenting on the EU.

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It's not some chaps from Eastern Europe, Latin America, or Africa that threaten me. My neighbor is Nigerian, dude is chill. Loves football, takes his children to the local playground, etc.

What threatens me is imbeciles that believe in great replacement and 14 words about future for white children. Keep your racism across the pond and try not to breed with siblings.

Re: New Amazon Data Center Is Set to Have the Most Polluting Power Plant in the U.S.

#187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean, "nowhere does it say that things get worse overall"? Do you need to get it explicitly spelled out for you to realize that the environment and ecosystems everywhere are under extreme stress (to say it mildly) and failing!? Do you really believe, that the way humans are using resources and polluting everything, doesn't have any negative impact? And why the hell would the GDP be ANY good measurement, s…

> Do you need to get it explicitly spelled out for you to realize that the environment and ecosystems everywhere are under extreme stress That's anthropomorphizing. The ecosystem cannot be stressed because it has no natural/good state. > And why the hell would the GDP be ANY good measurement, since it does not include any environmental costs (if I don't need to correctly dispose of my trash and can burn it cheaper, I…

The natural state of an ecosystem is one in which my native trees aren’t dying back every year until they get killed by massive insect infestations because they can’t access enough water to protect themselves in the summer anymore.

Re: New Amazon Data Center Is Set to Have the Most Polluting Power Plant in the U.S.

#188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's pervasive. Especially when it is people from the US commenting on the EU.

It’s MAGA ideology and commenters mentioning it are just revealing their red hats. Any Europeans regurgitating that _foreign_ ideology are pathetic.

That hat lives rent free in so many people’s minds. The hat says “Make America Great Again”, btw. A good hat!

Re: New Amazon Data Center Is Set to Have the Most Polluting Power Plant in the U.S.

#189

Those in power seem to think that a compute advantage is necessary to maintain economic advantage. Despite this, the voters universally hate data centers, so much so that both NY and TX have data center construction moratoriums. Despite this, those in power refuse any environmentally aware energy policy nor water policy. Despite this, companies have been trying to be environmentally aware for either moral or marketin…

Modern data centers can be designed with near-zero direct water consumption. It isn’t fundamentally necessary to consume huge amounts of water to cool computers. What’s the story with those new data centers? Do they actually choose to do evaporative cooling that people are complaining about or people are complaining about problem that doesn’t exist?

How? In most locations for much of the year you need to reject heat either by evaporating water or using electricity (more water) to run a refrigeration cycle.

Re: New Amazon Data Center Is Set to Have the Most Polluting Power Plant in the U.S.

#190
post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What's going to replace it? Rapidly aging China? Using the age profile of a country with over a billion people to dismiss its geopolitical power has no credibility. More appropriate to point out their (our) lack of domestic chip production and outsourcing of critical technologies.

>Using the age profile of a country with over a billion people to dismiss its geopolitical power has no credibility. The first two charts are for GDP, which correlates pretty well with geopolitical power. Moreover if we're going by population, wouldn't that imply India, and then later Africa are going to be superpowers?

GDP is subtle broken in many ways

A "in general" correlates with geopolitical power doesn't necessary mean you can point at a specific case look at their GDP and come to a good conclusion. Especially not if it's as much of a special case as China.

> wouldn't that imply India, and then later Africa are going to be superpowers?

which might actually happen. If the US falls further from grace and the situations stays like that for a few decades, or the US and another huge power (e.g. China) fall into some costly conflict then India or a union of African countries have a serious chance to become a world super power.

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=> But more relevantly this discussion is going into red hering argument direction:

- No one argued that you should go _only_ by population, the argument is, that if a country with a gigantic population shrinks hugely they still have enough people left to wage large scale wars.

- Similar no one (should) argue that GDP is by itself meaningful for such an assessment, it's one imperfect not supper reliable statistical point. Especially given how things move wrt. dark factories (i.e. fully automated => no light one as no human there), AI and similar. Yes, if GDP is supper low or high that says a lot, but a lot is not everything and a average GDP for decade long trends in a word looking to face a major time of change means not much in any direction.

- Similar we are speaking about decade long developments, current military strength ist also just another non fully reliable indicator. E.g. Germany post WW1 had close to actual 0/no military strength, and then there was WW2 just a few years later...

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