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The walls of Apple's garden are tumbling down

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Re: The walls of Apple's garden are tumbling down

#301

Post by Jtsummers »

lenerdenator wrote: post #294
talldayo wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HN tells me that there's only one more step left after embracing and extending. Apple didn't make some mistake putting iMessage and SMS in the same app, they want you reliant on their service so that SMS seems (rightfully) poor by comparison. There would be nothing wrong with that if Apple wasn't equally as miserly with that power as the carriers they want to valiantly protest against. I'm no fan of cell carriers eit…

The problem with "prevents fair competition" with regards to iMessage is that there were plenty of chances for fair competition and others ( particularly Google) kept messing it up. How many chat platforms did they blow through? I can absolutely install other messaging apps (WhatsApp, Signal, Telegram, etc.) on my iPhone and contact other people on an Android device using that app. The thing that keeps me from doing…

> How many chat platforms did they blow through?

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/08/a-decade-and-a-half-...

Which, to me, demonstrates the core problem: Apple succeeded by remaining focused. Google failed because it has some form of institutional ADHD when it comes to messaging services. Google even had a six year head start on Apple with Google Talk, and still managed to fail because they couldn't remain focused.

People are upset that Apple succeeded, but they aren't even running the most popular messaging service out there.

Re: The walls of Apple's garden are tumbling down

#302

Post by legends2k »

nerdix wrote: post #273
cesarb wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Windows Mobile phones had apps distributed by wherever, you could go get them on a CD from Bestbuy if you wanted. This was also the case for Palm smartphones. Since they were an amalgam of a Palm PDA and a cell phone, they kept the app model of Palm PDAs. IIRC, you could even transfer apps from one Palm PDA to another through their infrared port, or through Bluetooth if both were fancy ones.

I think a lot of people forget that the iPhone was not the first smart phone. I was downloading apps, checking email, and sending IMs over the AIM network with Verichat on my Treo 650 well before the iPhone was a thing.

+1. I've done the same with SymbianOS.

Re: The walls of Apple's garden are tumbling down

#303

Post by alternatex »

zer00eyz wrote: post #205
Teever wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And why are they adding RCS? Because the EU is starting to regulate them so theyve stopped dragging their ass on this.

Because RCS has reached the point where it should be taken seriously. The bulk of apples iPhone business is on US carriers. Who, on a good day, are in the Stone Age.

RCS reached that point by being dragged there by Google.

Re: The walls of Apple's garden are tumbling down

#304

Post by nerdix »

Jtsummers wrote: post #296
nerdix wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there an example of Microsoft ever actually "extinguishing" something? The extinguish bit is more about making the competing services non-viable. Microsoft's whole strategy was built around making it so a user on its platform either couldn't or wouldn't want to use a particular technology without their proprietary extensions. That perfectly describes iMessage if we're to believe all the commentary on social media…

> In fact, I'd argue that iMessage has been one of the most successful implementations of EEE ever. Maybe only behind ActiveX and Microsoft's slow adoption of web standards in the late 90s - mid 00s (but MS never actually replaced HTML or JavaScript with its proprietary stuff). Is it? Globally, iMessage is far from the most popular messaging application. If it's an attempt at EEE it's not a great one. IE was far more…

> Is it? Globally, iMessage is far from the most popular messaging application. If it's an attempt at EEE it's not a great one. IE was far more successful in degree and longevity of impact.

I basically already said it was second to IE. What else did MS do that was more successful than iMessage? There were definitely many attempts by Microsoft that were not as successful like Visual J++. They also had a similar strategy to iMessage with MSN Messenger embracing and extending AIM and they had a lot of success with that but most of that success came right before desktop messaging was superseded by mobile messaging.

> The only people who care about that their own messages on their own phones show up as green bubbles are children. The rest of the world doesn't give a shit. They see green bubbles because they use WhatsApp.

Thats just just not true in America. There are literally adult Android users that who post about how using Android is a barrier to their dating life because other adult iPhone users (which is the majority for certain age groups) will just simply refuse to date someone who doesn't use an iPhone.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9FbOf3uewU

https://www.cnet.com/culture/iphone-or-android-your-phone-ch...

And countless reddit threads and twitter posts:

https://www.reddit.com/r/dating/comments/qsle1x/is_having_an...

https://www.reddit.com/r/dating_advice/comments/17n91aj/is_a...

https://twitter.com/ldollaz_/status/1783138659480289561

https://twitter.com/tweetsmoe/status/1783274758856925517

Some people even think the issue is Android:

https://twitter.com/EbonyJHilton_MD/status/13480303950157004...

I've also heard personal anecdotes from single men that I know who use Android (it definitely goes other way too but I know more single men personally than women).

Re: The walls of Apple's garden are tumbling down

#305

Post by thr0waway001 »

I don't think they'll ever hit that low of the mid '90s ever again, unless maybe Tim Apple leaves, and they get a really incompetent leader. It happened once, but you'd think at least they'd learn from the past. I'm betting on them having learned from the past.

But, on the other hand, I think their peak is past them and they can kinda either do the Microsoft thing and just, stop trying to innovate, but, buy up and coming companies instead, OR they can just kind of settle in their niche where they are a big company, selling nice looking tech to their die-hard patrons, but no longer leading the way, and no longer being the top dog. Which only lasts for so long.

Re: The walls of Apple's garden are tumbling down

#306

Post by xvilka »

fidotron wrote: post #16

The thing people love forgetting is a huge part of the iPhone success is based on the North American cellular comms industry being a trustless disaster area. The deal Apple did with AT&T opened the floodgates. Android was initially designed so that operators could customise it. The idea was apps were developed (and sold) only by operators, and everything else would be via the browser. If you had used a Nokia device i…

OEMs ruined Android with their "improvements". While stock Android has many issues of its own, the firmware that most users see is significantly worse.

Re: The walls of Apple's garden are tumbling down

#307

Post by karlgkk »

thr0waway001 wrote: post #305

I don't think they'll ever hit that low of the mid '90s ever again, unless maybe Tim Apple leaves, and they get a really incompetent leader. It happened once, but you'd think at least they'd learn from the past. I'm betting on them having learned from the past. But, on the other hand, I think their peak is past them and they can kinda either do the Microsoft thing and just, stop trying to innovate, but, buy up and co…

I don’t think they’ve ever cared about being top dog, just the best. And the best might not be for everyone

Re: The walls of Apple's garden are tumbling down

#308

Post by thr0waway001 »

karlgkk wrote: post #307
thr0waway001 wrote: post #305

I don't think they'll ever hit that low of the mid '90s ever again, unless maybe Tim Apple leaves, and they get a really incompetent leader. It happened once, but you'd think at least they'd learn from the past. I'm betting on them having learned from the past. But, on the other hand, I think their peak is past them and they can kinda either do the Microsoft thing and just, stop trying to innovate, but, buy up and co…

I don’t think they’ve ever cared about being top dog, just the best. And the best might not be for everyone

Whether they cared or not at some point they were the most valuable company and, therefore, the top dog.

Re: The walls of Apple's garden are tumbling down

#309

Post by pmarreck »

rootusrootus wrote: post #55
pmarreck wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> “iMessage on Android would simply serve to remove an obstacle to iPhone families giving their kids Android phones.” This statement says a few extra things that Craig Federighi probably didn't realize he was saying. 1) It suggests that the iPhone wouldn't be able to hold its own in a market where interoperability with Android was easier. That demonstrates a lack of faith in it. 2) I've noticed that any time a corpor…

> It suggests that the iPhone wouldn't be able to hold its own in a market where interoperability with Android was easier It is just a statement of the obvious. Price tends to trump every other consideration, unless the difference is pretty big. See also airline ticket pricing and the race to the bottom in comfort & features. If there is no differentiator, a lot of people will just get Android phones because they cos…

But this is just stupidity.

Sorry, let me rephrase: This is appealing to the lowest common denominator and the most ignorant consumer.

Re: The walls of Apple's garden are tumbling down

#310

Post by pmarreck »

0x457 wrote: post #233
VelesDude wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regarding No 2. That is very true but it is astounding just how much inertia is in the system that keeps iPhone going. Turns out that the curated experience of iPhone combined with a lot of fumbles from various android vendors has kept iPhone image of being the best and most desirable phone. It is very vaguely feeling like if another big player was to come in they could actually make some waves that causes everyone e…

After 5 years of android, I've never been happier to switch back to iPhone.

It is the best worst option. ;)

Would love to read a post about it explaining your experiences (all of the good and bad) and why you returned.

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