I have been having bigger bowel troubles ever since I started working in Google five years ago. They went away during the pandemic, but this week I'm sick with some kind of infection in my abdomen again. I never had that before starting in Google, and I always was able to pretty much eat what I want. Now I don't think it's the food, which is great (and I have been experimenting to see if I could narrow it down). But…
Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids
301–310 of 420 posts
Re: Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids
#302Earlier quoted context omitted.
When we lived in houses with gas, some difficult to remove yellow residue formed on the outsides of all our stainless steel. We assumed it was cooking oil, but apparently, it was not. Our induction range completely eliminated that problem. I wonder how much of the gunk is still in my lungs.
The real kicker is that most gas stoves leak. That residue might not have even been from USING the stove - it could have been from a very slow leak constantly coming out of the stove. I took apart mine and completely greased all the fittings and put the proper type of teflon tape. Feel way better. Confirmed there are zero leaks now
Re: Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids
#303Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is a fascinating topic because there is no practical way of knowing what food-related items (containers, utensils, washing up liquids) are safe to heat and what aren't. Indeed no one can track the makeup of everything in their kitchen that comes in contact with food. Then there's the topic of items that are safe to use only in ideal conditions. Like Teflon in cookware that is said to be very safe unless it overh…
Or just use your microwave to reheat normal food you have cooked yourself in glass containers. Not a lot to go wrong there.
Re: Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids
#304I wash dishes by hand with hot water and a Korean abrasive cloth using no soap ... It's quicker and easier than anything else
Re: Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids
#305This isn’t a great way to test this. It’s a good way to begin exploring it. >Enterocytic liquid-liquid interfaces were established on permeable supports https://bioduro-sundia.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/caco-2... This is like a fake very fragile layer of cells cultured on a membrane. It’s good for preliminary data but it needs follow up data in vivo. Caveats off the top of my head- 1. Your real gut is massively m…
> A professional dishwasher completes 1 or 2 wash and rinse cycles using 3.5 L of water per cycle. The detergent and rinse aid are automatically dispensed into the water at a concentration of 1.5 to 4 mL/L and 0.1 to 0.5 mL/L, respectively. At these concentrations, the residual dilution factor after rinse ranges from 1:250 to 1:667 for detergents and 1:2,000 to 1:10,000 for rinse aids.
So 1:10,000 is a plausible dilution of rinse aid in the rinse water. Unless people are drinking the rinse water (please don't), it's not a dilution that will ever be seen by the body.
Rather, what the body will see is however much residue is left on a mug diluted in whatever the volume of the mug is.
They do sort of address this:
> To study the chemicals in the residue remaining on the surface of dishware after washing, 10 porcelain cups (190 mL size) were subjected to 1 full washing and drying cycle in professional (Winterhalter, GS501, Germany) and household (AEG, GS60AV, Poland) dishwashers and then 1 mL of culture medium was added into them. After shaking and waiting for 5 minutes, the culture medium was collected from the cups, filter-sterilized, and added to the monolayer and differentiated cell cultures directly or in 1:2, 1:5, and 1:10 dilutions.
Except that they wash all the residues off in just 1 ml of medium. They then dilute that 1 ml onto cells:
> The LDH cytotoxicity assay on monolayer Caco-2 cells showed that the toxicity exerted by the dried rinse aid residue on the cups washed in a professional dishwasher still takes place even at a 1:10 dilution (see Fig E9, A). TEER and PF were also measured in differentiated Caco-2 cells, and parallel results were observed when exposed to rinse aid. High concentrations (1:2 and 1:5 dilutions) of the residue severely impaired the epithelial barrier function as measured by the decreased TEER values. In the 1:10 dilution, nearly the same TEER values were observed compared with controls.
So this isn't great, but it also doesn't seem like a big deal. You could rinse a cup in 10 ml of water, gargle with it, and be fine.
Re: Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids
#306Earlier quoted context omitted.
You don't need any rinse aid, period.
Did you not read what I wrote? Not sure what point you are making... I don't need to brush my hair, wear clothes, or wash my car either... But those are usually considered "proper" things to do. My first load without rinse aid resulted in spotty dishes. Not too bad, but annoying. By the third, it was worse. By the end of the week, all of the glassware was milky white and you could no longer see through it. You know t…
https://www.southernliving.com/home/organization/dishwasher-...
Re: Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids
#307I suffered from chronic diarrhea for years which I attributed to Crohn's disease. This seemed obvious since diarrhea is a very common symptom of Crohn's, but its onset had been several years after I was diagnosed and prior to that I had tended more towards the opposite problem (constipation). I was thus always suspicious that the root cause lay elsewhere. After much experimenting I found that if I ran my dishwasher t…
I take 1000mg of activated charcoal per day and feel better. It is paradoxical, because all charcoal does is absorb. It makes me think that everything we put into our bodies nowadays is poison. And if all charcoal does is absorb, maybe most foods are a net negative. My interest in fasting has piqued as a result.
I think we are entering an era of rampant industrialization wherein the products (food, soaps, cookware coatings, packaging materials, etc.) are not necessarily the best products on the market, but simply cost effective enough to put on the shelves--meaning if waste can get on the shelf through clever marketing and engineering then it will.
Re: Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids
#308I always rinse my dishes before using them, even if they've been in the dishwasher. Does anyone else do this?
Re: Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids
#309Earlier quoted context omitted.
The marketing side of the market has spoken. Fixed serving sizes force over-use. Lots of included water means extra volume and weight (perceived value) on the shelf. While powders allow measured use, and reduce turnover. I buy 20lb boxes of cheap powder and they last for months. Hot water just doesn’t need that much help if you put some in the pre-wash too.
> I buy 20lb boxes of cheap powder and they last for months. ...is this a commercial kitchen? 20lb is like two loads a day for a year.
Re: Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids
#310Earlier quoted context omitted.
I had issues severe enough to visit a gastroenterologist, which turned out to be caused by a water filter that wasn't being changed. I stopped consuming water going through that filter, and all symptoms went away within a day or two. It was stunning.
I don't touch water from a filter or (if I can avoid it) bottled water. Tap water in Sydney and most of Australia is excellent.