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Ask HN: Why do some people not communicate clearly?

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Re: Ask HN: Why do some people not communicate clearly?

#301

Post by andrewflnr »

8note wrote: post #258
ilaksh wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hm. I am an American, but maybe that American optimism stuff explains some friction I have had at work. I find that being optimistic when important things aren't working is stupid and increases risk.

I think an optimistic look at important things being broken is that you have an opportunity to learn more about those things, and make changes both to fix it and avoid the same problem again.

That's more reasonable, but it's not (AFAICT, anyway) the kind of optimism being discussed as "American optimism".

Re: Ask HN: Why do some people not communicate clearly?

#302

Post by diordiderot »

yrgulation wrote: post #296
cdavid wrote: post #223

A crucial point not mentioned yet: cross cultural issues. In an American culture, it is "self-evident" that clear communication is about being direct and to the point. But this is far from universal. More generally, western cultures tend to conflate earnest and truth. "Telling it like it is" is valued. We don't realize our own "phoniness". I have witnessed countless times people hitting a wall in meetings and other s…

Quoted post unavailable.

This post leads me to believe you don't have much experience with people from diverse backgrounds.

You should see how different 'white people' are on average every few hundred miles in Europe

Re: Ask HN: Why do some people not communicate clearly?

#303

Post by m_fayer »

bacon_waffle wrote: post #276
m_fayer wrote: post #104

I am, charitably, a pretty decent developer. I also have what I think most would agree is a pretty successful career. My career is not built on programming. Rather, it's built on my ability to communicate effectively in writing and in spontaneous speech, and to serve as a translation layer between various parts of an organization. Your frustration is my opportunity. In my experience, few people without the training o…

How do you suggest others find people like you to work with?

Find companies with socially relevant and/or idiosyncratic missions. Look for teams that tilt older. Stay away from sv hype and nonsense.

Re: Ask HN: Why do some people not communicate clearly?

#304

Post by mbrodersen »

In my experience there is a strong correlation between your ability to communicate clearly and your ability to write clean maintainable code.

The 10x developers I have worked with are all excellent communicators. The worst developers I have worked with most definitely weren’t.

Re: Ask HN: Why do some people not communicate clearly?

#305

Post by thom »

khazhoux wrote: post #288
thom wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your comments elsethread are further examples of someone ignoring (and apparently attempting to throw under the bus) co-workers who are trying to provide important, actionable context.

Sometimes one just needs a direct answer to a question. In fact, it’s a common anti-pattern of effective communication, to think that “more detail ( all the detail ) is always better.” Sometimes we just need an answer to the question, and will ask follow-ups as needed. I find a correlation actually where people who struggle to give clear answers/explanations, struggle in their own decision-making. They get ensnarled…

All the examples you've given are of team members struggling in a wider ecosystem. Yes, you can stamp your foot and hold them to their responsibilities on a single task. But you might deliver more value if you listened to the things holding them back, because there will always be future tasks.

Re: Ask HN: Why do some people not communicate clearly?

#307

Post by narcraft »

zwkrt wrote: post #274
eej71 wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm an American and I think one mistake we Americans make is that we think we are very direct, but there is a lot of indirectness in some of our communication habits. This is particularly true in other parts of the country. As a native born midwestern, there are some indirect habits there and I'd say the west coast as its own too. So we're mostly direct, but there is some indirectness that we are at times blind to.

As a mildly autistic person who grew up in the Midwest, my understanding is that it is not at all direct haha. East coast is much more abrasive and easier to get. If someone things you’re an ass they’ll let you know. And you can let them know why they’re wrong in a loud back-and forth. Then laugh and get a drink. In the Midwest people are too polite to say anything. Many midwesterners will bear an annoyance for years…

As someone who grew up in the Midwest and currently living on the East coast, I always get a little pissed off when I hear this trope. People in the Midwest are honest and just genuinely nice and friendly. Politeness to me has performative connotations. Most of my peers from back home talk like sailors.

I think rural vs suburban vs urban mannerisms might be a confounding variable here as well. I'm from the suburbs.

Re: Ask HN: Why do some people not communicate clearly?

#308

Post by falconinthesun »

cdavid wrote: post #223

A crucial point not mentioned yet: cross cultural issues. In an American culture, it is "self-evident" that clear communication is about being direct and to the point. But this is far from universal. More generally, western cultures tend to conflate earnest and truth. "Telling it like it is" is valued. We don't realize our own "phoniness". I have witnessed countless times people hitting a wall in meetings and other s…

Fully agree with this. As a south american woman working in a multi-cultural company, I have a very direct and passionate way of speaking, which tends to mean I can easily dominate conversations and "intimidate" a lot of my co-workers from other countries.

That's why I try to be mindful of this; there's dozens of tools one can use to have effective communication. Begging the question, starting with a negative assumption, playing devil's advocate, etc. The key to good comms is a) have empathy for the person you're speaking to, and b) assume they're just as competent and well-intentioned as you are.

Re: Ask HN: Why do some people not communicate clearly?

#310

Post by yesSoTho »

ajkjk wrote: post #253
yesSoTho wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They could have settled down, collected their thoughts. This “rant” literally provides evidence the poster is a crappy communicator. Are we sure they’re not blaming everyone else out of frustration with their own shortcomings? I suggest they read some Camus and consider in a relative world not everyone is composed of the same statefulness they are.

Ranting isn't inherently bad or good communication, whether or not you like the rant. I believe the thing the op is talking about is really incompetent communication that you see all the time in tech e.g., far worse than you're thinking you see here.

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