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Ask HN: Why do some people not communicate clearly?

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Re: Ask HN: Why do some people not communicate clearly?

#291

Post by etempleton »

cdavid wrote: post #286
zwkrt wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a mildly autistic person who grew up in the Midwest, my understanding is that it is not at all direct haha. East coast is much more abrasive and easier to get. If someone things you’re an ass they’ll let you know. And you can let them know why they’re wrong in a loud back-and forth. Then laugh and get a drink. In the Midwest people are too polite to say anything. Many midwesterners will bear an annoyance for years…

The east coast/west coast is super striking. A few American friends were surprised when I told them I thought East/West coast divide was wider than e.g. NY/France, culture-wise. New York always felt like a more culturally diverse, bigger, English speaking Paris. When I am in Japan, there is an obvious "this is not Kansas anymore" aspect. I love it, I lived there > 10 years but I don't need any effort to know I am lik…

I have always felt there is a phoniness to west coast social interactions. There is both an indirectness and fake happiness that I find very jarring. On the east coast, particularly New York, people almost relish in their negativity, but at least they are clear about how they feel (typically).

Re: Ask HN: Why do some people not communicate clearly?

#292

Post by zikohh »

Have you ever done a questionnaire that has terrible questions which are just so open like "What tool is important to you?" asking this to an engineer is a very open ended question - typically the quality of responses gathered for bad questionnaires are abysmal.

Therefore, answers/responses can only be of a good quality if the question is.

Next, you may ask a question which in your eyes is simple but in the eyes of someone who understands more is actually complex and has many factors.

Ask two people how does a car move forward? One may say I press the gas, the other may say pressure increases in the engine which moves blah etc giving power to the wheels etc. Both answers are correct, no one specified the amount of detail nor the success criteria of the response. No one knows what you're thinking nor what you want, try to be considerate just because you think others aren't communicating clearly doesn't mean they aren't.

It's possible that you don't understand what is being said and therefore attribute that to bad communication but in fact it's a deficiency on your side.

If someone says someone is bad at communication sometimes they simply don't understand what's said and they want a simplified answer. That doesn't mean the person responding is bad at communication.

As others have mentioned, in tech nothing is black and white if you ask me how can we fix X: immediately I would give you a couple options; maybe a hacky workaround and a long term fix giving an explanation of the advantages and disadvantages so you can take an informed decision. None of this is bad communication it's actually portraying a sense of ownership and ethics.

Simple answers to questions may mean the wrong solution is chosen.

There's no such thing as a simple answer to a complex question.

Finally, communication is not code, like any form of communication back and forth has to take place and this is healthy and normal. If you feel it's tiring then you may want everything spoon fed.

I've had people repeat everything I've said with different pronouns to confirm their understanding - in my eyes they had a deficiency in understanding because they are literally repeating what I'm saying over instant messaging.

Take a step back and put yourself in their shoes and be sympathetic and compassionate.

Re: Ask HN: Why do some people not communicate clearly?

#293

Post by hasbot »

BeetleB wrote: post #142
raybb wrote: post #71

Does anyone have any recommendations for books/courses for improving verbal communication? Not talking about pubic speaking, like toastmasters, but improving your ability to do things like mentioned by OP? I feel like there's lots of stuff about this on writing but less related to verbal communication.

Crucial Conversations Difficult Conversations Nonviolent Communications Many here on HN get PTSD with the last one, but ignore them - everyone I've engaged in on HN that criticizes the book hasn't read it (the book actually agrees with their talking points!) However, I will say that there is a cult-like following the book has (NVC chapters in various cities, etc), and would recommend you read the book and avoid the c…

How do you know what your communication style is and how do you know you're actually making changes to your style? Do you record some of your conversations and study them later?

I ask this because, based on empirical evidence have a communication style that turns people off. I have no idea what I'm doing wrong. I've thought about recording conversations. Video would be far better because undoubtedly there are body language issues too.

Re: Ask HN: Why do some people not communicate clearly?

#294

Post by theonething »

wildrhythms wrote: post #278
Zvez wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. I've seen to many times how some people ask direct question which doesn't have simple answer. So they instead get answer with some context, questions and conditional statements. It happens often when question goes through 'occupation boundaries'. Eg you are manager (judging by 'my experience is with SWEs') and you ask 'simple' direct question from swe "can you implement this feature". And instead you get wall o…

Indeed, any SWE manager asking 'Can you implement this?' and not expecting a wall of followup questions, conditionals, and background context is out of their depth.

> a wall of followup questions, conditionals, and background context is out of their depth.

Really?

I hate long discussions so I try to answer my questions as succinctly as possible. In this case, if I think I can implement, I'll simply say yes. If not, I'll say no and give the reasons why.

I guess I'm out of my depth?

Re: Ask HN: Why do some people not communicate clearly?

#295

Post by BeetleB »

hasbot wrote: post #293
BeetleB wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Crucial Conversations Difficult Conversations Nonviolent Communications Many here on HN get PTSD with the last one, but ignore them - everyone I've engaged in on HN that criticizes the book hasn't read it (the book actually agrees with their talking points!) However, I will say that there is a cult-like following the book has (NVC chapters in various cities, etc), and would recommend you read the book and avoid the c…

How do you know what your communication style is and how do you know you're actually making changes to your style? Do you record some of your conversations and study them later? I ask this because, based on empirical evidence have a communication style that turns people off. I have no idea what I'm doing wrong. I've thought about recording conversations. Video would be far better because undoubtedly there are body la…

These books have examples of poor communications and why things can go wrong with them. For me it was simply a matter of reading the examples and saying "Yup, I do this" or "Yup, my boss/coworker does this."

Once you somewhat internalize the advice in the book, it's not hard to look at a conversation you had earlier in the day and start itemizing the "mistakes" you made. The hard part is to catch them live before they happen.

A word of caution: Don't assume that just because people are turned off that the problem is you. I thought that way and after reading the book, I found out that about half of them were my problem, half with the other parties - and the important message wasn't that I should change my style, but that I should learn to handle it when the other party takes something I said poorly, and help them articulate what is bothering them.

Re: Ask HN: Why do some people not communicate clearly?

#296

Post by yrgulation »

cdavid wrote: post #223

A crucial point not mentioned yet: cross cultural issues. In an American culture, it is "self-evident" that clear communication is about being direct and to the point. But this is far from universal. More generally, western cultures tend to conflate earnest and truth. "Telling it like it is" is valued. We don't realize our own "phoniness". I have witnessed countless times people hitting a wall in meetings and other s…

No post body was provided.

Re: Ask HN: Why do some people not communicate clearly?

#298

Post by random_kris »

yrgulation wrote: post #296
cdavid wrote: post #223

A crucial point not mentioned yet: cross cultural issues. In an American culture, it is "self-evident" that clear communication is about being direct and to the point. But this is far from universal. More generally, western cultures tend to conflate earnest and truth. "Telling it like it is" is valued. We don't realize our own "phoniness". I have witnessed countless times people hitting a wall in meetings and other s…

Quoted post unavailable.

Might be strange, but is true

Re: Ask HN: Why do some people not communicate clearly?

#299

Post by protonbob »

yrgulation wrote: post #296
cdavid wrote: post #223

A crucial point not mentioned yet: cross cultural issues. In an American culture, it is "self-evident" that clear communication is about being direct and to the point. But this is far from universal. More generally, western cultures tend to conflate earnest and truth. "Telling it like it is" is valued. We don't realize our own "phoniness". I have witnessed countless times people hitting a wall in meetings and other s…

Quoted post unavailable.

Culture is a real thing. And people in a country share one.

Re: Ask HN: Why do some people not communicate clearly?

#300

Post by defrost »

yrgulation wrote: post #296
cdavid wrote: post #223

A crucial point not mentioned yet: cross cultural issues. In an American culture, it is "self-evident" that clear communication is about being direct and to the point. But this is far from universal. More generally, western cultures tend to conflate earnest and truth. "Telling it like it is" is valued. We don't realize our own "phoniness". I have witnessed countless times people hitting a wall in meetings and other s…

Quoted post unavailable.

"French" isn't a racial trait - it's a teeming blob of culture with many facets and internal differences with a distinction albeit some overlap to other EU and global cultures.

Please don't drag "race" into a comment that clearly addresses cultural distinctions from the outset.

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