American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class • Hacker News Board

Re: American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

#301

Post by narrator » Thu, Nov 03, 2022, 1:13 AM UTC

The reason that communism thrives in racially homogenous societies like North Korea, 20th century Russia or China is because it requires people to believe that everyone is roughly equal and that they only have different economic outcomes because the bourgeois conspire to hold the proletariat down.

In a multi-racial society like the U.S, people are less likely to believe that because of racism. This is why libertarians and racists are often strange bedfellows because they oppose communism together, but for completely different reasons. They would probably be sworn enemies in a racially homogenous society.

Re: American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

#302

Post by seydor » Thu, Nov 03, 2022, 1:14 AM UTC

I thought that was intentional

Re: American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

#303

Post by bee_rider » Thu, Nov 03, 2022, 1:14 AM UTC

rippercushions wrote: post #180

notch656a wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is still structural codified racism within US borders. For instance, it's illegal for non-native US nationals/citizens to own most property in American Samoa, in effect perpetuating racism against outsiders who are also US nationals.

Uniquely, American Samoans are US "nationals" but not "citizens", which makes a whole lot of things very weird. I think we should just jettison the colonial baggage and hand the islands back to actual Samoa next door, but here we are.

So what do we tell those US nationals "become citizens of Samoa or become stateless," because that's obviously not a viable path forward.

Re: American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

#304

Post by BurningFrog » Thu, Nov 03, 2022, 1:14 AM UTC

notch656a wrote: post #141

kareemsabri wrote: post #21

Race is very easy to focus on without making any structural changes in society. A black man was president. So long as it's the right black man, it doesn't change much.

There is still structural codified racism within US borders. For instance, it's illegal for non-native US nationals/citizens to own most property in American Samoa, in effect perpetuating racism against outsiders who are also US nationals.

This is why American Samoa prefers to remain a territory.

They don't want to end up like Hawaii.

Re: American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

#305

Post by duvenaud » Thu, Nov 03, 2022, 1:14 AM UTC

nemothekid wrote: post #247

coyotespike wrote: post #187

Here in Texas, any student from the top 10% of their high school is guaranteed a place at the flagship University of Texas at Austin. This is widely understood to be a form of affirmative action. Naturally, high schools in underprivileged areas - rural or urban - will produce students who are nowhere nearly as prepared as students from elite or wealthy schools. We ignore that difference as a policy matter. Top 10% is…

> Maybe the Ivies will move to a similar system in the wake of the current SCOTUS case. AFAICT, the ivies don't have a problem with filling their graduating class. I believe a place like Harvard even considering the top 10% of students would increase the applicant pool. I'm reciting these numbers from memory, but apparently the size of the incoming class at Harvard is roughly 2,000 students, but there are ~5,000 appl…

> While I believe there is belief that Harvard is accepting C-students over asians A+ students I think the reality is much closer; they are rejecting students with perfect scores and accepting students who scored in the 98th percentile.

You don't need to speculate, the gap is more like 99th vs 93rd percentile:

"Asian-Americans admitted to Harvard earned an average SAT score of 767 across all sections. ... African-American admits an average of 704."

https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2018/10/22/asian-american...

Re: American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

#306

Post by tstrimple » Thu, Nov 03, 2022, 1:15 AM UTC

acchow wrote: post #275

s5300 wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can’t have high-achieving underprivileged kids if they don’t even have lunch to eat during school…

For those missing context, I believe this is a reference to California high schools which provide free lunch to students (and I guess this doesn't happen in Texas...?)

California is the only state in the country with this policy.

Re: American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

#307

Post by mcguire » Thu, Nov 03, 2022, 1:15 AM UTC

geoduck14 wrote: post #204

coyotespike wrote: post #187

Here in Texas, any student from the top 10% of their high school is guaranteed a place at the flagship University of Texas at Austin. This is widely understood to be a form of affirmative action. Naturally, high schools in underprivileged areas - rural or urban - will produce students who are nowhere nearly as prepared as students from elite or wealthy schools. We ignore that difference as a policy matter. Top 10% is…

The top 10% of the good high schools don't go to University of Texas

Six of the Ivy's admitted 13,000 students this fall (https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaeltnietzel/2022/04/04/ivy-...). UTAustin admitted 19,000 last year, and roughly 50% enrolled. (https://admissions.utexas.edu/explore/freshman-profile)

Texas graduates an estimated 350,000 high school seniors every year. (https://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d16/tables/dt16_219.20.a...)

Re: American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

#308

Post by jiscariot » Thu, Nov 03, 2022, 1:15 AM UTC

defterGoose wrote: post #81

Some NPR correspondent : "...and we all know how this disproportionately affects black and brown communities." /s

It could be a story about mushroom cultivation or mid-century architecture, and NPR would find a way to make it about disparate impact in the black community. The game I play now, is I'll listen until they start in on identity politics. It usually doesn't take longer than 3-4 minutes.

Re: American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

#309

Post by sublinear » Thu, Nov 03, 2022, 1:16 AM UTC

okwubodu wrote: post #261

The second order effects of affirmative action's repeal are going to be very entertaining. You can get a sneak peek by taking a look at the student body at a school like UT Austin where, by law, 75% of students must be in-state and automatically admitted according to class rank (GPA). https://admissions.utexas.edu/explore/freshman-profile You'll notice that when comparing Harvard and UT's student bodies to the US and…

I think there's a bit more to this. A lot of men simply don't need a degree when they take up the family business, go to trade school, or start a military career and that's fairly common in the south. I wouldn't call most of those guys disadvantaged.

Drop out rates for the disadvantaged can be high as well regardless of affirmative action getting them in. The difficulties are cultural and I agree that making this situation clearer is a net good.

Re: American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

#310

Post by 627467 » Thu, Nov 03, 2022, 1:16 AM UTC

etempleton wrote: post #110

Part of the American dream is that the feeling that there is no rigid social class. Everyone is a millionaire down on their luck. You only need to work harder or be more clever—ideally both. To some extent, it is true. Realistically, however, it is rare to move more than one or two income brackets from where your parents were when they were your age. Race in America, however, is fraught. The history of racism is rece…

> Part of the American dream is that the feeling that there is no rigid social class. Everyone is a millionaire down on their luck. You only need to work harder or be more clever—ideally both.

Recently I have been thinking in this vein too... This "American dream" is such a repeated cliché that some may think it's just that: a cliché in the minds of even Americans. But my current hypothesis is that many (most) Americans actually believe it. To the point of being blind of the actual nature of this "meritocracy".

This blindness to the fact that individual agency is not really as powerful as the "dream" states basically reinforces the idea that certain hard to change property of an individual (ie. Race? Gender identity? Sexuality?) must be the core reason for lack of success/progress: the biggot believes not all people are what it takes to succeed, and the biggot's prey believe their core nature/mark is the main reason why others don't support their progress.