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American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

economist.com

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Re: American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

#171

Post by rippercushions »

scotty79 wrote: post #146
ironSkillet wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He bought the newspaper to prove that he could help transform a decaying news business into a digital focused successful one.

And only by sheer accident this newspaper started publishing articles praising billionaires like him and their endeavors (like private space race).

I don't think they were particularly successful in that, there was quite a bit of backlash about billionaires blowing millions of dollars on useless vanity projects so they can fly to space on giant space dicks: https://www.theguardian.com/science/2021/jul/20/jeff-bezos-r...

Re: American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

#172

Post by daxfohl »

Vt71fcAqt7 wrote: post #24

>Surveys show that majorities of African-Americans, Californians, Democrats and Hispanics all oppose the use of race in college admissions (and in other areas). This was surprising to me.

The way a survey question is phrased can dramatically affect the responses. Without references, I assume some cherry picking and loaded phrasing here.

Re: American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

#173

Post by zeroonetwothree »

etempleton wrote: post #110

Part of the American dream is that the feeling that there is no rigid social class. Everyone is a millionaire down on their luck. You only need to work harder or be more clever—ideally both. To some extent, it is true. Realistically, however, it is rare to move more than one or two income brackets from where your parents were when they were your age. Race in America, however, is fraught. The history of racism is rece…

There’s only ~5 income brackets so moving “more than two” is indeed mathematically challenging for anyone in the middle.

Re: American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

#174

Post by juve1996 »

kube-system wrote: post #18

Yeah, I agree that it is important to take into account disadvantages that people may have unfairly experienced due to no fault of their own. But, why do we need to use race as a proxy? Presuming something about someone based on their skin color is prejudice regardless of your intentions. If people are disadvantaged, let's measure those disadvantages directly and adjust for those factors.

> But, why do we need to use race as a proxy?

Because historically race was used systemically to limit opportunities for people of color. The last school to be desegregated was in 1963. Think about that.

Re: American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

#175

Post by hprotagonist »

That's all the media and the politicians are ever talking about: the things that separate us, things that make us different from one another. That's the way the ruling class operates in any society: they try to divide the rest of the people; they keep the lower and the middle classes fighting with each other so that they, the rich, can run off with all the fucking money.

Fairly simple thing... happens to work.

You know, anything different, that's what they're gonna talk about: race, religion, ethnic and national background, jobs, income, education, social status, sexuality, anything they can do to keep us fighting with each other so that they can keep going to the bank.

You know how I describe the economic and social classes in this country? The upper class keeps all of the money, pays none of the taxes. The middle class pays all of the taxes, does all of the work. The poor are there just to scare the shit out of the middle class... keep on showing up at those jobs.

george carlin, 1992, “jammin’ in new york”

Re: American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

#176

Post by Alupis »

feet wrote: post #153
Alupis wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course it's the truth. Success does not just fall into anyone's lap, save a very few minority of cases that get trumpeted as-if they're normal. There are no shortcuts. Hard work and persistence are what is required to be successful in this country - full stop. And hard work doesn't mean you sweat more... There is no system or mechanism in America that prevents a poor child from growing up into one of the nation's…

Opportunity is only available to those who are in the right place at the right time speaking to the right people. If we consider the fact that the universe is entirely deterministic we can see that the ideas of free will and meritocracy evaporate.

Complete nonsense. You literally make your own opportunities - although not all opportunities are obvious when present and some do not reveal themselves unless other opportunities are taken first.

How do you think the "right place, right time" people get to the right place and right time? It's not an accident - it's years in the making for most people. Some never even realize they're in the right place or at the right time, and miss opportunities. That's just how it goes...

The people we're talking about do not seek opportunities, do not make themselves ready for opportunities and do not posses skills to capitalize on opportunities. This is why they sit at home complaining about life instead of studying harder and working harder or building their own opportunity. They literally expect one day something grand will fall into their lap and they'll be the next billionaire. Life doesn't work that way...

Re: American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

#177

Post by zeroonetwothree »

daxfohl wrote: post #172
Vt71fcAqt7 wrote: post #24

>Surveys show that majorities of African-Americans, Californians, Democrats and Hispanics all oppose the use of race in college admissions (and in other areas). This was surprising to me.

The way a survey question is phrased can dramatically affect the responses. Without references, I assume some cherry picking and loaded phrasing here.

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2022/04/26/u-s-public-...

Re: American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

#178

Post by redeux »

wrycoder wrote: post #94
Consultant32452 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember when the elites did a Jedi mind trick on the Occupy Wall Street folks and made them change their focus to race and what bathroom people get to use. It was remarkable.

Not the elites. Horowitz: Occupy Wall Street: The Communist Movement Reborn [0]. [0] https://www.amazon.com/Occupy-Wall-Street-Communist-Movement...

That book was written by authors with a noted conservative agenda so I’m not sure I would take them at face value, especially given the hyperbolic title.

Re: American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

#179

Post by heavyset_go »

Consultant32452 wrote: post #13
throwaway23597 wrote: post #5

LMAO at these journalists pretending they're so surprised to find this. As if they had no hand in creating this environment... and as if this wasn't the whole point to begin with. The upper class owns journalism and this state of affairs was very much the goal.

I remember when the elites did a Jedi mind trick on the Occupy Wall Street folks and made them change their focus to race and what bathroom people get to use. It was remarkable.

Many of the people today who scoff at class analysis were people who clutched their pearls at Occupy Wall Street and thought it was extremism.

Re: American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

#180

Post by rippercushions »

notch656a wrote: post #141
kareemsabri wrote: post #21

Race is very easy to focus on without making any structural changes in society. A black man was president. So long as it's the right black man, it doesn't change much.

There is still structural codified racism within US borders. For instance, it's illegal for non-native US nationals/citizens to own most property in American Samoa, in effect perpetuating racism against outsiders who are also US nationals.

Uniquely, American Samoans are US "nationals" but not "citizens", which makes a whole lot of things very weird.

I think we should just jettison the colonial baggage and hand the islands back to actual Samoa next door, but here we are.

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