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Alaska snow crab season canceled after disappearance of an estimated 1B crabs

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Re: Alaska snow crab season canceled after disappearance of an estimated 1B crabs

#301
post #130

Overfishing is a classic problem of "Tragedy of the Commons". The oceans are the commons. For example, nobody is predicting a catastrophic decline in the population of pigs, chickens, and cattle. Fish farming is the future.

Veganism is the (only logical) future.

Veganism, like all other idealogies that could be described as “if only everyone did X,” will never, ever be as widely-adopted as you’d like without authoritarianism driving that adoption.

Also — I’m saying this as a former vegan — I have developed so many food allergies that I literally cannot be vegan anymore (the vast, vast majority of my food allergies are plants). And yes I carry an epi-pen, they can kill me, etc. If I ate plants only, I would die.

Reality is a whole hell of a lot more complicated than those casually pushing ultimatums on the internet ever seem to realize or acknowledge.

Re: Alaska snow crab season canceled after disappearance of an estimated 1B crabs

#302
post #42

The Seattle Times joined followed a carb boat in April of 2022. https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/environment/into-t... The captain's take on the issue includes climate change, over crabbing areas known to be struggling and trawling. The article also includes an explanation as to how cod could be responsible due to climate change offering less ice protection for the crab.

> carb boat Heh heh. I imagine fishermen hauling in a net full of potatoes and pasta.

No post body was provided.

Re: Alaska snow crab season canceled after disappearance of an estimated 1B crabs

#303
Since we're all speculating, I would guess that ocean acidification could be at play here. The arctic regions are carbon sinks so they experience acidification earlier than other parts of the ocean. When the CO2 is absorbed into the ocean it causes the pH level to decrease, making the waters more acidic. This inhibits CaCO3 (calcium carbonate) formation found in many ocean species like crabs.

If there's a rapid die off of this magnitude there aren't many other problems which would match this level of impact. It could be something else environmental like the water temperature but it doesn't seem like an anthropogenic problem. Similar problems have happened already for other species like oysters.[0]

I was an intern with NOAA in a fisheries lab studying ocean acidification back in college in 2011. There was a large die off in oyster farms the year before which wiped out a good size of their production. The issue then was that the farms were cycling the water in directly from the ocean into the tanks without adjusting the pH. As the pH in the ocean water dropped, it killed off all of the oysters in the farms all at once. They had to do a quick about face to treat the water to regain the catch.

Ocean acidification seemed like a problem that would get worse and worse over time. The estimate back then was that it would take roughly 50 years for the CO2 in the air to equilibrate with the CO2 in the ocean. Since we won't stop emitting any time soon it's going to get a lot more acidic.

I'm a decade behind on the status but back then it seemed like there were a lot of unknowns around the problem too. I'm not sure if more has come to light on the impacts it might have for ecology or the biochemistry of different species. It was a complex problem so predicting the outcome seemed extremely difficult. Hopefully more is known but if not surprises like this would likely crop up. For shellfish, once it goes under a certain pH threshold for a species the young will be unable to form shells which can cause them to die en mass in a short time period.

It doesn't seem like a problem that we can engineer our way out of. The best we can do is probably to monitor and perform science experiments to see some of it coming. Then try to mitigate the damage.

It seems like NOAA would have been able to call out the calcification problem for the snow crab in advance though since there have been issues with other crab species.[1] They probably would have detected the pH change in the waters too so this might not be the cause. Either way it's an interesting subject to learn about.

[0] https://blogs.oregonstate.edu/breakingwaves/2011/06/28/ocean... [1] https://research.noaa.gov/article/ArtMID/587/ArticleID/2581/...

NOAA's ocean acidification program https://oceanacidification.noaa.gov/Home.aspx

This was a good 2011 report from the IPCC if you're interested. https://www.ipcc.ch/publication/ipcc-workshop-on-ocean-acidi...

Re: Alaska snow crab season canceled after disappearance of an estimated 1B crabs

#305
post #301
post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Veganism is the (only logical) future.

Veganism, like all other idealogies that could be described as “if only everyone did X,” will never, ever be as widely-adopted as you’d like without authoritarianism driving that adoption. Also — I’m saying this as a former vegan — I have developed so many food allergies that I literally cannot be vegan anymore (the vast, vast majority of my food allergies are plants). And yes I carry an epi-pen, they can kill me, et…

Your first paragraph is probably right, just like we need laws against rape and slavery. Go back in history and you’ll find people who would have said “I can’t imagine a world without that” on those issues too. I’m all for it.

Re: Alaska snow crab season canceled after disappearance of an estimated 1B crabs

#306
post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think those will really ever make a noticeable dent in the market. Most people don't want plant based burgers, especially with the negative reputation of soy and masculinity. I think lab grown meat will be the future. If you are able to present it in packages that look exactly like the cuts that one can currently buy in the store I see no reason they wont catch on.

> negative reputation of soy and masculinity That's a ruse/tactic of the meat industry, nothing more. Meat/dairy is full of estrogens, phytoestrogens are in fact protective against real estrogens. Btw, I don't think that masculinity depends on eating corpses / animal secretions. https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/modern-minds/202005/...

And forget phytoestrogens, commercial milk has plain ol estrogen: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19496976/

“Soy boy” never made much sense to me. Most people who fling that epithet could probably improve their health outcomes with some edamame.

Re: Alaska snow crab season canceled after disappearance of an estimated 1B crabs

#307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> link to more on indigenous/pre-colonial overfishing of oysters in Hudson Bay? Sure! It’s from this book [1]. Decreasing oyster size (implying younger harvests) in New York mounds was explicitly contrasted with the sustainable extraction from the Chesapeake Bay. (None of your sources mention the Hudson.) Better delineation than capitalist and indigenous might be trading and non-trading. > trigger warning This is a n…

Thanks. You're right, those sources do not mention Hudson Bay, despite my Google search including the words. I should know better. I've recently started enjoying oysters and other shellfish so I'll add the book to my reading list. Looks very interesting! edit: "New York mounds" -- is this about Hudson Bay (the one in Canada) or the Hudson River estuary, in New York? The first source I linked doesn't mention the river…

> "New York mounds" -- is this about Hudson Bay (the one in Canada) or the Hudson River estuary, in New York?

New York, New York.

The natives piled mounds of shells. Over generations, these grew formidable [1]. (“Midden” [2]. Pearl Street gets its name from a Lenape midden [3].)

[1] https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/19/science/native-americans-...

[2] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midden

[3] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pearl_Street_(Manhattan)

Re: Alaska snow crab season canceled after disappearance of an estimated 1B crabs

#308
post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the world doesn't get over fossil fuel addiction and allowing oil companies to push us to near extinction for their profits, really soon, the worse is yet to come.

As much as I would like to end such an addiction, there aren't even viable replacements for every ICE yet. What do we do about aircraft, freight trucks, and sea vessels?

Trucking industry is looking at hydrogen fuel cells. The hope is that renewables will create the hydrogen from water. For aircraft, the dream is to create synthetic fuels from ammonia. Ocean going vessels are hoping Diesel engines can be converted to use ammonia.

https://www.freightwaves.com/news/is-green-ammonia-fit-to-de...

Re: Alaska snow crab season canceled after disappearance of an estimated 1B crabs

#309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

would it be simpler just to de-claw the crabs so that they are unable to poke / snip at each other?

Claws have some of the best meat, if anything you want larger claws

But maybe just the pointy, immobile part of the crab claw would need to be removed. That usually doesn’t have too much meat.
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