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Alaska snow crab season canceled after disappearance of an estimated 1B crabs

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Re: Alaska snow crab season canceled after disappearance of an estimated 1B crabs

#291

Post by jandrewrogers »

baskethead wrote: post #227

I mean is there any mystery here? It's China. China doesn't care about anything except for themselves. Hundreds of Chinese fishing boats set up just outside of international waters in South America and fished everything in the area and brought it back to China. It's like a sick game of Age of Empires but millions of people are affected.

This doesn't pass the sniff test. The US has the most capable and dominant naval presence on the planet and they use it. Nothing happens near their territorial waters without their permission and they see it coming long before it happens. The "ghost fleet" fishing incidents -- which are a real concern -- happen to countries with minimal maritime defenses.

You can blame China for many things but this definitely isn't one of them. Episodic fishery collapses are a thing that occurs naturally aside from fishing activity, and the Alaskan fishery is one of the best managed in the world.

Re: Alaska snow crab season canceled after disappearance of an estimated 1B crabs

#292

Post by JumpCrisscross »

tomjakubowski wrote: post #257
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> cases where it seems like purely a tragedy of capitalism We have evidence the Hudson Bay was being overfished for oysters in the decades preceding European settlement. Any explanation beginning and ending with capitalism is about as useless as blaming every problem on greed.

Do you have a link to more on indigenous/pre-colonial overfishing of oysters in Hudson Bay? Google is not turning up anything but contradictory sources for me. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-022-29818-z https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.1600019113 (Trigger warning for you: the Nature Comms article makes contrasts with "capitalist" fisheries)

> link to more on indigenous/pre-colonial overfishing of oysters in Hudson Bay?

Sure! It’s from this book [1].

Decreasing oyster size (implying younger harvests) in New York mounds was explicitly contrasted with the sustainable extraction from the Chesapeake Bay. (None of your sources mention the Hudson.)

Better delineation than capitalist and indigenous might be trading and non-trading.

> trigger warning

This is a needless way to undercut oneself. (It’s also mean.)

[1] https://www.amazon.com/Big-Oyster-History-Half-Shell/dp/0345...*

Re: Alaska snow crab season canceled after disappearance of an estimated 1B crabs

#293

Post by ryandrake »

akira2501 wrote: post #261
hayst4ck wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have large cognitive dissonance to "we shouldn't be the world police" and "globalism is bad." At face value I agree, but... If you believe in the rule of law and human rights, then globalism seems like a natural consequence, as does policing the world. What would happen if you let China have global hegemony and they become the over-fishing police? What type of enforcement do you think they might have (or non enforc…

> If you believe in the rule of law and human rights, then globalism seems like a natural consequence, as does policing the world. You might ask, what problems is globalism going to solve that treaties and national cooperation can't today? More importantly, what will those mechanisms be and will they be just as vulnerable to the problems of corruption and interconnection that plague the meaningful enforcement of trea…

> Recently, we did have a very globally similar response to a world wide event, and I'm not at all surprised that during that time the rich managed to make themselves much richer and the middle class has mostly taken the hit. If that's a hint to what "globalism" has to offer, you can keep it. We'll have to figure out the fishing problem some other way.

You're probably talking about the world wide COVID response, and yes, it was an utter failure. But it was not because of globalism... it was a failure because every country tried to tackle it themselves, incompetently, in their own little vacuum, and the sum total across the world ended up uncoordinated and half-assed. If ever there was an ideal time for "technocracy" and letting the experts take charge worldwide, it was during a global deadly pandemic, but we all blew it.

Re: Alaska snow crab season canceled after disappearance of an estimated 1B crabs

#294

Post by chiefalchemist »

scottLobster wrote: post #275
zachrose wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stop using them so much?

Yeah, how about we shut down large swaths of national economies. That's produced nothing but positive effects for all involved over the last couple of years.

Keep in mind, there are a (relatively) small number of ecomonies and peoples causing the majority of the damage / side effects. The others can continue as they have been.

The current model isn't sustainable. Something *must* change. There can be no actual change without change.

The point is, the economies in question (i.e., the over-contributors) need to change and all we're talking about is getting back to normal. In what reality is a normal that's so deadly so normalized and worshipped?

Re: Alaska snow crab season canceled after disappearance of an estimated 1B crabs

#296

Post by 1270018080 »

baskethead wrote: post #227

I mean is there any mystery here? It's China. China doesn't care about anything except for themselves. Hundreds of Chinese fishing boats set up just outside of international waters in South America and fished everything in the area and brought it back to China. It's like a sick game of Age of Empires but millions of people are affected.

If your first thought is always "there is a grand conspiracy plotting against american interests" you need to come back to reality.

Re: Alaska snow crab season canceled after disappearance of an estimated 1B crabs

#297

Post by pcurve »

shagie wrote: post #176
outworlder wrote: post #110

How feasible is it to grow crabs in captivity? We need to start farming food, no way natural ecosystems can support themselves _and_ humans at current levels.

It's possible. Searching suggests it is done more in SE Asia than in the US (this might be a "what does the cuisine focus on?") RAS Vertical Farming for Mud Crabs - https://youtu.be/XQJmZz4mdWY (there's a bit of an accent, I'd recommend subtitles) I'll also suggest a watch of How America's Biggest Indoor Shrimp Farm Sells 2 Million Shrimp Every Year - https://youtu.be/1AK_RQ1uaGs (the American diet tends to have more…

oh man, that mud crab video is wild!

Looked into this more.

"in aquaculture farms, post-nursery crabs reach marketable size and maturity in 6–7 months compared with 18–24 months under natural conditions"

Re: Alaska snow crab season canceled after disappearance of an estimated 1B crabs

#298

Post by jagger27 »

EricE wrote: post #273
Tozen wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the world doesn't get over fossil fuel addiction and allowing oil companies to push us to near extinction for their profits, really soon, the worse is yet to come.

Talk to a European about that evil addiction to fossil fuel this winter.

Are you European?

Re: Alaska snow crab season canceled after disappearance of an estimated 1B crabs

#300

Post by tomjakubowski »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #292
tomjakubowski wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have a link to more on indigenous/pre-colonial overfishing of oysters in Hudson Bay? Google is not turning up anything but contradictory sources for me. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-022-29818-z https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.1600019113 (Trigger warning for you: the Nature Comms article makes contrasts with "capitalist" fisheries)

> link to more on indigenous/pre-colonial overfishing of oysters in Hudson Bay? Sure! It’s from this book [1]. Decreasing oyster size (implying younger harvests) in New York mounds was explicitly contrasted with the sustainable extraction from the Chesapeake Bay. (None of your sources mention the Hudson.) Better delineation than capitalist and indigenous might be trading and non-trading. > trigger warning This is a n…

Thanks. You're right, those sources do not mention Hudson Bay, despite my Google search including the words. I should know better.

I've recently started enjoying oysters and other shellfish so I'll add the book to my reading list. Looks very interesting!

edit: "New York mounds" -- is this about Hudson Bay (the one in Canada) or the Hudson River estuary, in New York?

The first source I linked doesn't mention the river either, but second source does claim no prehistoric declines of oyster sizes in the Hudson River estuary. Still going to read the book and then make my up my mind

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