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Epic launches anti-cheat support for Linux, Mac, and Steam Deck

dev.epicgames.com

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Re: Epic launches anti-cheat support for Linux, Mac, and Steam Deck

#301

Post by fletchowns »

a1369209993 wrote: post #261
fletchowns wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being able to play Call of Duty without people screaming the N word into my ears regularly would be amazing. Intolerance to hate speech could be something enforced by this hypothetical service as well. Sure I can turn off the death mic, but there's been some really amazing interactions though it as well. For those not aware, the death mic in CoD is a feature where the instant you frag somebody in game, it turns their…

> it turns their mic on, Well that's horrifying. I'm glad I don't use Windows, and I'm glad my computer physically does not have a microphone for malware to enable.

You can disable it if you'd like, but nearly everybody leaves it on because it's a pretty fun feature most of the time :)

Re: Epic launches anti-cheat support for Linux, Mac, and Steam Deck

#302

Post by fletchowns »

Kaze404 wrote: post #264
fletchowns wrote: post #89

I wish there was some well respected third party reputation service that I could prove my identity to (government id, utility statements, etc) and then all games just integrate with this third party reputation service. Sort of an Olympic committee for gaming. Give me the option to only play with other verified players. Getting caught cheating in one game then impacts your reputation in _all_ games. There's a gazillio…

I had someone invade the League of Legends account I used for almost a decade after me not using it for a year or so and cheat to their hearts content. That caused the account to get permanently banned with absolutely zero help from Riot Games' support on how to get it revised. In your system I'd never be able to play an online game again, only because a single account of mine used an email / password combination tha…

Yes this is a very real issue that would need to be solved by the service I proposed, I specifically called out the appeals process and account hijacking resolution in my original comment due to their importance. It needs to be centralized because it's an impossible task to ask every game studio to get all these things right.

Re: Epic launches anti-cheat support for Linux, Mac, and Steam Deck

#303

Post by novok »

horsawlarway wrote: post #287
novok wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This will eventually lead to online multiplayer games to only be playable of a game console of sorts for ranked matches, where you are not the root user is implicit from the start.

My take is that it will lead to a lack of interest in these games. Why bother trying to be the "best" (or even good) at a thing, if a robot can outperform you by leaps and bounds?

Because in the tournaments that pay money, you're in person and there are no bots and all of your bot assisted skill falls away.

Re: Epic launches anti-cheat support for Linux, Mac, and Steam Deck

#304

Post by VRay »

fletchowns wrote: post #300
VRay wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you ever glanced at the Facebook comments under a news article? It did nothing at all to stop online toxicity when they tied your online persona to your identity, photograph, the identity of all your friends and family, etc. Plenty of pictures of smiling grandfathers holding babies next to N-word-laden rants out there

It's not just the tying of ones online identity to their real life identity that would mitigate this issue though. It's the fact that if a punishment is doled out (voice comms restricted for hate speech, or a ban issued for cheating), then you could be certain that the person isn't just going to register a new account and keep doing it, because the barrier of registering a new account would be so much higher (having…

OK, imagine this: A 13 year old makes an account, goes through your onerous KYC process, plays some game. Gets banned for saying something offensive under his breath when the game suddenly turns his mic on without him expecting it.

You're thinking "Great, problem solved, this kid will literally never be allowed to play another video game as long as he lives"

OK, in actuality, he's just going to use his mom's ID next time. And his dad's. And his grandparents' IDs. etc, etc

There'll be a whole gray market for IDs from all over the world to pair to your ridiculous Orwellian service, because thankfully it won't be backed up by penalty of death

Re: Epic launches anti-cheat support for Linux, Mac, and Steam Deck

#305

Post by TingPing »

judge2020 wrote: post #223
oliwarner wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Community moderation with persistent outcomes (eg VAC ban) is great for games you have to pay for, but it's really abrasive to a F2P community if there's am endless stream of cheaters.

Both CS:GO and Dota are F2P, but yes, most cheaters just purchase new accounts/create new accounts. They've had to put mitigations for this like requiring x hours/x games to play competitive game modes.

I believe all free CSGO players are in a different pool, you must pay or play a lot to be in the prime pool of players.

Re: Epic launches anti-cheat support for Linux, Mac, and Steam Deck

#306

Post by devwastaken »

raydev wrote: post #297
devwastaken wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Epics anti cheat doesn't even work. flocks of kids get actual aim bots that epic can't deal with. CSGO anti cheat is yet to be matched in quality because it relies on players and statistics. It turns out that you can't control client software and hardware. Good competitive cheaters use hardware aim assist. Any software you make will be modified. The only way to stop cheaters is math, and people.

In competitive Fortnite it seems like Epic is quick to permaban cheaters. Personally, in the last year of playing, I'm not sure I've run into more than a couple obvious aimbotters. But I guess Epic has games besides Fortnite.

Aimbots are a form of obvious cheat. If anti cheat worked, they wouldn't be possible. The movement of the player input and accuracy is mathematically obvious. The problem is anti cheats aren't designed to prevent cheating, they're designed to sell a product that non programmers want to buy. Same as DRM. Somewhere down the list is actually having the anti cheat work, it's not the main goal.

Re: Epic launches anti-cheat support for Linux, Mac, and Steam Deck

#307

Post by fletchowns »

VRay wrote: post #304
fletchowns wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not just the tying of ones online identity to their real life identity that would mitigate this issue though. It's the fact that if a punishment is doled out (voice comms restricted for hate speech, or a ban issued for cheating), then you could be certain that the person isn't just going to register a new account and keep doing it, because the barrier of registering a new account would be so much higher (having…

OK, imagine this: A 13 year old makes an account, goes through your onerous KYC process, plays some game. Gets banned for saying something offensive under his breath when the game suddenly turns his mic on without him expecting it. You're thinking "Great, problem solved, this kid will literally never be allowed to play another video game as long as he lives" OK, in actuality, he's just going to use his mom's ID next…

I don't think a single infraction of hate speech would warrant any consequences, it would need to be a multiple offenses before punishment is doled out. This punishment could just be a temporary loss of voice communication privileges. Eventually if they are a habitual offender, it could lead to longer loss of voice comms, and then eventually a repeat ban.

Producing identity verification documents that many times over and over is not something a 13 year old will likely be able to do, relatives would certainly raise questions from those relatives as to why they need them.

I see the ridiculous Orwellian service is being the anti-cheat software we have to run already.

Re: Epic launches anti-cheat support for Linux, Mac, and Steam Deck

#308

Post by VRay »

fletchowns wrote: post #307
VRay wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OK, imagine this: A 13 year old makes an account, goes through your onerous KYC process, plays some game. Gets banned for saying something offensive under his breath when the game suddenly turns his mic on without him expecting it. You're thinking "Great, problem solved, this kid will literally never be allowed to play another video game as long as he lives" OK, in actuality, he's just going to use his mom's ID next…

I don't think a single infraction of hate speech would warrant any consequences, it would need to be a multiple offenses before punishment is doled out. This punishment could just be a temporary loss of voice communication privileges. Eventually if they are a habitual offender, it could lead to longer loss of voice comms, and then eventually a repeat ban. Producing identity verification documents that many times over…

Right now you get muted and banned pretty quickly for mouthing off in any online game. Most games have some combination of costing $60+ up front, being pay-to-win, and/or being grind-to-win, so getting permanently banned from any of them is pretty catastrophic. Yet plenty of people get banned and re-buy the games regularly anyway

Re: Epic launches anti-cheat support for Linux, Mac, and Steam Deck

#309

Post by exporectomy »

temporarrry0923 wrote: post #174
exporectomy wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Congratulations on your fun project. Be careful about "literally impossible" though. If it's truly identical to aiming by hand, it won't help you. If it isn't, there might be some statistical (in)consistency that's detectable with enough play.

>If it's truly identical to aiming by hand, it won't help you Except it's identical to incredible aiming (yet human) skills, which I do not have ;)

What if some person or algorithm notices that you don't have those skills while walking or shooting at other body parts - only at heads? That's the kind of inconsistency I'm talking about. Or what if the nature of the mouse movements is consistently a little different between the AI and yourself?

Re: Epic launches anti-cheat support for Linux, Mac, and Steam Deck

#310

Post by _angd »

novok wrote: post #274
jay_kyburz wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its not _hard_ its $$$ expensive . You'll need bigger processors and more servers. I mean, I guess its _hard_ to choose what compromises to make, but not technically hard. Anyhow, I'm no expert. The solution to competitive gaming is streaming, not anti-cheat. Everybody gets the same resolution, same frame-rate, same latency. Fair is fair.

Honestly think it's game consoles with keyboards and mice that are bound to proprietary crypto protocols, much like the anti-piracy that the current xbox has. Can't do video stream HID interception unless you make a robot, and you've just raised the barrier of entry so high to get rid of %99.9 of it. And in pro matches you can just watch them in person.

Unless you make a robot... Or you connect some wires to the sensors for the joystick.
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