The author avoided this, but I wonder if the clique was all the same ethnicity. I've definitely seen teams in tech companies that are Chinese teams or Indian teams. Also some white teams, but not as many.
My Experience at Apple
301–310 of 840 posts
Re: My Experience at Apple
#302Earlier quoted context omitted.
I do not understand why someone w/ a green card needs to be afraid of being fired. Isn't the whole point of it to firm up your status as someone who is allowed to stay on indefinitely with very few conditions, one of them being % of year spent in the US, plus not committing certain serious offences (felonies?)
People with green cards don't need to be afraid of being fired: they're permanent residents. The people who have to worry are those on work visas.
I am sure he meant people on a work visa, whom the employer had applied for and are waiting to get a green card. The process can take from 2 to 10 years, so you are at the mercy of the employer during that time- where abuse often worsens because of the power leverage.
Re: My Experience at Apple
#303Earlier quoted context omitted.
Some extra tidbits that didn't make it in because the edit timer ran out: - Despite the big release and herculean efforts, both of us were paid a fraction of our target bonus. This was the day I decided to move jobs. - I eventually grew some balls and told Apple to (a) pay me 2.5x during overtime (b) hire SREs for this critical service, or (c) go fuck themselves. They chose (c), which worked alright because our servi…
> The primary lesson I learnt is that it doesn't matter if you work hard. As with most things in life, there are places where it matters and places where it doesn't matter. If someone's a junior employee working in a big company, it's likely that they don't have the necessary experience to figure out whether hard work matters in their position. That's an important risk to be aware of. But the opposite advice, avoidin…
I don't know. Work fairly, certainly. Work hard... what's the point?
So in some cases you want to fast track your advancement in a direction that you like and this possible through this method, and you actually can work hard, so in this case take the chance if you want to. But that kind of situation is quite rare, I think.
Also certainly do not appear to be working too lightly. But also do not appear to be working extremely hard if it is not the case.
And remember, the (perceived) results are more important than actually working hard. It can be very unfair sometimes, because e.g. if you have to maintain and add features in a legacy codebase, (poor, but that's common) higher-ups may be uninterested with your difficulties caused by the spaghettis of your predecessors, but well life is just unfair I guess :P
Re: My Experience at Apple
#304This is awful. I'm sorry that happened to you. However, If Apple refuse to take actions, I will interview with major media outlets describing the experience in more details and I will release a list of all individuals involved from senior management to the HR director and all the evidence as public record. You're wasting your time if you think they're going to do anything with this kind of approach. Get a lawyer firs…
In NY (and, I think, California), that's illegal. I found this out, because at the company at which I worked, managers kept making verbal commitments, then gaslighting me about them. I could never get them to commit in writing, and my own "reflection" emails (the standard advice about this) were worthless. I considered walking around with a little digital recorder in my pocket. But many states have explicit laws agai…
It is not illegal in New York to record a conversation if the person recording is part of the conversation (one-party consent).
Re: My Experience at Apple
#305In a huge way, this person's post seems true - from what I've seen being a software engineer for twenty years, many tech companies (especially those in the Bay Area) are fast paced, demanding, and stressful, even for experienced developers. It's often an unforgiving environment where you either perform or are let go - personally have had my own equal share of victories and massive failures - And as for abuse, have ha…
> ... At the same time, this is somewhat universal to most (not all) companies to some degree, especially tech. And the more important the work, the more stressful the environment often is.
There is tough love, there is pressured work environment, however this is none of that. Even if half of this is made up or exaggerated, its out and out bullying.
it is your responsibility as a work colleague to put a stop to this sort of stuff. I have been bullied and I'm never standing for it again. So if I see shit like this happen near me, they fucking know about it.
The most important thing you need to remember is this: just because they are big company it doesn't mean they can treat you like shit. Work your hours, no more, no less, use their free perks, fucking push back when they take the piss.
Re: My Experience at Apple
#306This is one of the many reasons we need a UNION
Re: My Experience at Apple
#307There are areas like this in every company, from 8 person businesses to large corporates. For those who find themselves in one, the biggest stress comes from the fact it’s hard to leave. The abusers know this, of course, and they know that the more abuse they pile on, the harder it gets to leave. There is no easy answer, but I’ve seen it done to many people and those who’ve come out of it okay are those who just left…
This is a sad story not only because of just how toxic that team/department was, bur also because it sounds exactly like one where you're set up to fail the moment it's decided you're placed there.
The 'colleagues' in this story sound like they got themselves into a cushy position where they could coast off of the hard work and hopefulness of a new hire, drain them to the point of complete burnout, and then either fire them or let constructive dismissal take its course while they wait for fresh meat.
The things a group of nasty individuals can do when put together is truly saddening, and I hope the author of this post finds a better job where they are treated as a human being.
Re: My Experience at Apple
#308I am reading through this and I bet my 200$ that this person’s manager/team was primarily white and therefore this person has faced severe racism and bullying as a result of their race: > I had joined Apple on a student OPT visa > I was constantly being excluded from work meetings and events. There were meetings that I would be the only one who was not invited > my manager [...] started laughing and making fun of my…
> I am reading through this and I bet my 200$ that this person’s manager/team was primarily white and therefore this person has faced severe racism and bullying as a result of their race
I can see why you'd think that, but don't you think it's just as likely that the manager was a high caste Hindu? It seems in poor taste to speculate.
Re: My Experience at Apple
#309Things new engineers don't know, but should: 1. HR doesn't work for you; they work to minimize liability for the company. If HR thinks the best way to accomplish that is to destroy your life, that's exactly what they will do. 2. Many SV companies, as well as groups within large, respected SV companies, only survive through exploitation. They exploit their customers, their workforce, or both. Exploitation means obtain…
HR doesn't work for you That's what I've learned too. HR is an extension of the legal department. To be fair, their true job is to treat humans as resources. These days, they're sometimes rebranded as the "People Team"!
> humans as resources
I'm still disappointed this game never got made:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/659943965/human-resourc...
Re: My Experience at Apple
#310My heart goes out to any immigrant forced to stay in a abusive environment like this just to not get kicked out of the country.
I've seen that firsthand. Employers really have them over a barrel. Even more with extremely low paid outsourced workers.