My Experience at Apple • Hacker News Board

Re: My Experience at Apple

#251

Post by sdoering » Fri, Jan 01, 2021, 9:14 PM UTC

dreamcompiler wrote: post #212

Things new engineers don't know, but should: 1. HR doesn't work for you; they work to minimize liability for the company. If HR thinks the best way to accomplish that is to destroy your life, that's exactly what they will do. 2. Many SV companies, as well as groups within large, respected SV companies, only survive through exploitation. They exploit their customers, their workforce, or both. Exploitation means obtain…

I remember my SO working for a German bank. It was exactly as you describe. She was in a back-office job. She always said she was an overpaid perl script 95% of the time and interesting work for the rest.

Exploitation is common in many companies. For me this stems from information asymmetry. Employer knows the job market, knows the salary spread, knows all internal salaries. As an employee you do not have these insights and need to trust the employer to be fair.

As we probably all know information asymmetry makes efficient and rational markets to break down.

Not sure what a potential solution would look like.

Re: My Experience at Apple

#252

Post by penguin_booze » Fri, Jan 01, 2021, 9:14 PM UTC

dreamcompiler wrote: post #212

Things new engineers don't know, but should: 1. HR doesn't work for you; they work to minimize liability for the company. If HR thinks the best way to accomplish that is to destroy your life, that's exactly what they will do. 2. Many SV companies, as well as groups within large, respected SV companies, only survive through exploitation. They exploit their customers, their workforce, or both. Exploitation means obtain…

HR doesn't work for you

That's what I've learned too. HR is an extension of the legal department. To be fair, their true job is to treat humans as resources.

These days, they're sometimes rebranded as the "People Team"!

Re: My Experience at Apple

#253

Post by oblio » Fri, Jan 01, 2021, 9:14 PM UTC

zcw100 wrote: post #245

oblio wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sometimes a bit of pushing back helps. A lot of people's bite is worse than their bite. Plus some people are frankly bullies and if stand up to them you see their true colors, as cowards.

Sounds like the kind of person who wouldn't last long in jail. "Hey you really shouldn't let him steal your peach cobbler. You need to push back." and gets his ass shived nine times.

So Apple is like jail ? :-))

Re: My Experience at Apple

#254

Post by throwaway888abc » Fri, Jan 01, 2021, 9:17 PM UTC

dreamcompiler wrote: post #212

Things new engineers don't know, but should: 1. HR doesn't work for you; they work to minimize liability for the company. If HR thinks the best way to accomplish that is to destroy your life, that's exactly what they will do. 2. Many SV companies, as well as groups within large, respected SV companies, only survive through exploitation. They exploit their customers, their workforce, or both. Exploitation means obtain…

Words of wisdom, should be pinned up

Re: My Experience at Apple

#255

Post by trap_chateau » Fri, Jan 01, 2021, 9:18 PM UTC

nojvek wrote: post #194

What surprises me is how abusive Amazon and Apple can get to their employees while ship fantastic products to their customers. May be the whole you need great talent and treat them well isn’t true. You just need to treat them well enough so they don’t leave and pressure them enough so they don’t crumble. At the end of the day, management is about getting the most out of your employees and that’s what they are doing r…

This take seems a bit short sighted IMO. How do you know that if the work culture was better, the product wouldn't be any different?

It does seem unnecessary to strive for a perfect work-life balance for these giant companies to ship good enough products and make boatloads, though.

Re: My Experience at Apple

#256

Post by spottybanana » Fri, Jan 01, 2021, 9:20 PM UTC

praptak wrote: post #18

In such situations always gather evidence and hire a lawyer. HR are there to protect the interest of the company, you need someone that you employ to protect your interest.

Lawyer? Isn't the most effective thing just to quit and look for another job. Maybe you can milk some money out of the company with a lawyer, but you are going to pay mentally by investing your brain to that issue. It is better to focus elsewhere.

Re: My Experience at Apple

#257

Post by ardy42 » Fri, Jan 01, 2021, 9:21 PM UTC

polote wrote: post #17

Honestly why do people think that cannot happen at Apple ? That kind of thing can happen in any company. Apple is thousands of employees, it only requires a few bad people to create a situation like that. I'm not sure though, creating a post like that is the best thing. I don't know what exists in the US, but in France, you can sue your employer for free (You don't even need a lawyer), and if you are able to show a f…

> Honestly why do people think that cannot happen at Apple ? That kind of thing can happen in any company. Apple is thousands of employees, it only requires a few bad people to create a situation like that.

That's mind boggling, especially since all accounts paint Steve Jobs as being an massive asshole manager, and company culture gets set by examples at the top.

https://www.businessinsider.com/steve-jobs-jerk-2011-10

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/23/books/steve-jobs-lisa-bre...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidcoursey/2011/10/12/steve-j...

Re: My Experience at Apple

#258

Post by ChrisMarshallNY » Fri, Jan 01, 2021, 9:21 PM UTC

throwaway29303 wrote: post #193

This is awful. I'm sorry that happened to you. However, If Apple refuse to take actions, I will interview with major media outlets describing the experience in more details and I will release a list of all individuals involved from senior management to the HR director and all the evidence as public record. You're wasting your time if you think they're going to do anything with this kind of approach. Get a lawyer firs…

In NY (and, I think, California), that's illegal.

I found this out, because at the company at which I worked, managers kept making verbal commitments, then gaslighting me about them. I could never get them to commit in writing, and my own "reflection" emails (the standard advice about this) were worthless. I considered walking around with a little digital recorder in my pocket.

But many states have explicit laws against surreptitious audio recording. I suspect that comes from politicians being caught with wires (yeah, I'm a cynic).

That's why, if you get a surveillance camera that also records audio, they will usually have a card in there that tells you to post notices if you switch on the audio recorder.

Re: My Experience at Apple

#259

Post by mgh2 » Fri, Jan 01, 2021, 9:22 PM UTC

exApple-anon wrote: post #9

Posting anonymously for obvious reasons. Unlike others, I actually find this story fairly believable. When I first joined Apple, straight out of college - a good program, top three in the country - I was abused similarly. I joined a team that was on a project behind schedule. Our manager was a brusque, no-nonsense sort of dude. But he clearly had anger problems. On the team were 2 senior engineers, me, and a junior e…

"If you are an Apple employee, please send this story to your upper management particularly Tim Cook."

I doubt he will care, reflected at how he manages PR when accused of international labor abuses.

Re: My Experience at Apple

#260

Post by xenihn » Fri, Jan 01, 2021, 9:22 PM UTC

someonehere wrote: post #232

I worked for Apple retail in San Francisco. Being an early retail employee in the Bay Area, we had very close ties to Cupertino. I worked when Steve was still alive. * Retail management in my store ruled by fear. I heard from other stores across the US this was the same as well. * Promotions were handed out to those who kissed ass the hardest. Even if they were unqualified or cheated on promotion exams, if they brown…

Sounds like Disney.