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Cyberpunk 2077 runs on Linux through the Proton compatibility layer

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Re: Cyberpunk 2077 runs on Linux through the Proton compatibility layer

#301

Post by account42 »

coldpie wrote: post #225
moviuro wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Because if you start to support Linux you actually have to support all the major distribution (Debian, Arch, Ubuntu, Fedora, etc.) with their different idiosyncrasies, package format, libc implementations and/or version, etc. Feral and Paradox for instance only support one (1) distribution. If you fall outside that, you're on your own for support, but you get runnable binaries.

"Sorry the game doesn't work, we don't support your distro" is a really crummy thing to have to say to your customers. Fact is Linux doesn't have a stable ABI that you can build your game against (no, the Steam Runtime doesn't solve this problem). The only stable ABI that is supported on Linux is... win32 via Wine.

Better than "Sorry the game is not available for your platform."

Linux does have a stable ABI. The kernel ABI is stable. The glibc ABI is stable. The OpenGL ABI is stable. The Xlib ABI is stable.

What you can't do is link with a random libpng or whatever that you found on your system and then expect that to work for others. But that's the same on Windows.

Re: Cyberpunk 2077 runs on Linux through the Proton compatibility layer

#302

Post by account42 »

blaser-waffle wrote: post #224
dastx wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. Steam officially supported only Ubuntu for the longest time. I'm not sure if they still do that, but this is a possibility.

Steam is supported on Ubuntu and Fedora. That gives it .deb and rpm coverage, enough for the rest of the downstream distros to make it work. Anecdotally I've had great success with it on Fedora and Linux Mint (Mint being a spin-off of Ubunutu).

> That gives it .deb and rpm coverage

Package formats are mostly irrelevant for Steam. The only thing that is packaged is a tiny bootstrap script with the proper dependencies to make sure you have stuff like 32-bit system libraries installed. You don't even need to use that.

Re: Cyberpunk 2077 runs on Linux through the Proton compatibility layer

#303

Post by forest_dweller »

ric2b wrote: post #297
forest_dweller wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't understand your logic: you'd rather there be no games on Linux at all instead of some working well, some with hacks, and some not working? Other than the false dichotomy. Yes. I would rather not have the game on Linux, than have to rely on proton. > Edit: regarding the "works for me", I see your point but what else would I do? Stay on Windows because some games, not the ones I play, don't work on Linux? Of…

> Yes. I would rather not have the game on Linux, than have to rely on proton. So just ignore it and don't play the game.

The context in which we are speaking is whether proton is a suitable replacement. It cannot be ignored in this context.

The point is that people pretend everything works perfectly, when it doesn’t. On some games literally moving your mouse out of bounds can crash the game. In other situations there is performance problems that go much deeper than average framerate. None of this is mentioned and it gives users a false impression and is ultimately misleading (I've had gamers ask me if they can ditch Windows for Ubuntu and they had no experience with Linux before).

Re: Cyberpunk 2077 runs on Linux through the Proton compatibility layer

#304

Post by account42 »

coldpie wrote: post #223
gens wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Because if you start to support Linux you actually have to support all the major distribution (Debian, Arch, Ubuntu, Fedora, etc.) with their different idiosyncrasies, package format, libc implementations and/or version, etc. That is plain wrong. I don't know who started with that line of reasoning, but it is very wrong. The only good reason for not supporting linux are the drivers. And they will change more with t…

I ship binary software on Linux. I assure you, it is not wrong.

I also ship compiled binaries for Linux. I assure you, it's wrong.

Re: Cyberpunk 2077 runs on Linux through the Proton compatibility layer

#305

Post by [deleted] »

luch wrote: post #133
varispeed wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sadly we never released the game on Linux to the public. Do you know why? Linux is my primary OS and it always breaks my heart when companies decide to not support it.

Because if you start to support Linux you actually have to support all the major distribution (Debian, Arch, Ubuntu, Fedora, etc.) with their different idiosyncrasies, package format, libc implementations and/or version, etc. Basically your testing coverage explodes exponentially. That's why in a former gig the team I was part of decided to go from Linux to only Windows since it way easier to test only for ~3 majors…

[deleted]

Re: Cyberpunk 2077 runs on Linux through the Proton compatibility layer

#306

Post by account42 »

agilob wrote: post #269
dijit wrote: post #74

To be perfectly fair, it’s working on Linux natively. Since it runs on stadia. I was part of the efforts of putting The Division 2 on stadia and it really is “just Linux” for the most part. The elf binaries ran essentially flawlessly on my linux machine (although my machine was under powered for the game.) Sadly we never released the game on Linux to the public.

>Sadly we never released the game on Linux to the public. There was a lot of bad feedback after W2 was released on Linux. It was full price, but full of glitches, bugs, crashes, unexpected dying, invisible sword... and this list can go on. A lot of users released anger on CDP who took offence and said they're not doing anything for linux any more. From what you're saying, CP2077 is more closer to native desktop Linux…

> anger on CDP who took offence and said they're not doing anything for linux any more.

I have seen no such statement by CDProjekt RED. Only employees of the porting company decried the criticism they got.

Re: Cyberpunk 2077 runs on Linux through the Proton compatibility layer

#307

Post by account42 »

pjmlp wrote: post #217
SulfurHexaFluri wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its been like this for about the past 5 years since AMDGPU was added to the kernel. AMD cards are better for everything except compute where they failed to support the 5700 series.

How I would like to use the OpenGL 4.1 support of fxglr instead of "here OpenGL 3.3 and not complain" from the open source driver.

radeonsi supports OpenGL 4.6 just fine.

Re: Cyberpunk 2077 runs on Linux through the Proton compatibility layer

#308

Post by [deleted] »

9wzYQbTYsAIc wrote: post #19
Mengkudulangsat wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do Microsoft even still "care" about Windows these days? I speculate they will eventually make it freemium to hook new users so they grow up and subscribe to their real cash cow - Office.

According to their 2018 reporting, Windows and Xbox is actually making more money than Office. In reality, they have an almost even three way split between Productivity, Azure, and Personal. https://www.fool.com/investing/2019/02/19/heres-how-microsof...

[deleted]

Re: Cyberpunk 2077 runs on Linux through the Proton compatibility layer

#309

Post by coldpie »

account42 wrote: post #301
coldpie wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Sorry the game doesn't work, we don't support your distro" is a really crummy thing to have to say to your customers. Fact is Linux doesn't have a stable ABI that you can build your game against (no, the Steam Runtime doesn't solve this problem). The only stable ABI that is supported on Linux is... win32 via Wine.

Better than "Sorry the game is not available for your platform." Linux does have a stable ABI. The kernel ABI is stable. The glibc ABI is stable. The OpenGL ABI is stable. The Xlib ABI is stable. What you can't do is link with a random libpng or whatever that you found on your system and then expect that to work for others. But that's the same on Windows.

No, Windows provides a stable ABI for decoding PNG images, it's called the Windows Imaging Components library[1]. I don't think it's sustainable to expect every application to ship effectively an entire distro to provide stability. Consider if my app shipped an old version of gnutls, would you be happy to use that? Should it be my responsibility to update it for eternity? With win32, on both Windows and Linux via Wine, you can just use the win32 bcrypt library and assume the underlying implementation is secure and up to date.

Win32 is the only solution for a usable, stable, application-level ABI on Linux. I don't like that fact either.

[1] See CLSID_WICPngDecoder here, https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/api/wincodec/...

Re: Cyberpunk 2077 runs on Linux through the Proton compatibility layer

#310

Post by account42 »

gpderetta wrote: post #177
AgentME wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, there's also developers that technically release an actual native linux build with bugs and then offer zero support for it. At least games on Proton still get worked on by the Proton developers.

And often the "native" build is using the developer (or porter) closed source buggy wine-like compatibility layer (sometime seven using Windows PE binaries directly). Wine is usually superior especially in the long term. Some native ports are high quality though, like everything Croateam does and a some of Feral ports. At the end of the day the only thing that it is important is support. Community supported wine/prot…

> everything Croateam does

You mean eveything Croteam did. They stopped doing Linux ports after Alen Ladavac left for Stadia.

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