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Advice to new managers: don't joke about firing people

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Re: Advice to new managers: don't joke about firing people

#301

Post by dang »

6gvONxR4sf7o wrote: post #217
Mc_Big_G wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obama: 1 bad joke 45: Infinity bad jokes Interesting who we choose which to focus on.

This whole "It's really interesting that ..." rhetoric that's been somehow on the rise needs to die. State your point. Since you didn't state it, I have to guess. It seems like you're suggesting that HN is overly forgiving of Trump and overly critical of Obama, which is laughable given how HN treats the current administration. But of course you didn't actually make a point, so nobody else can really address it.

Please don't respond to one bad comment with another. The site guidelines explicitly ask you not to, for the obvious reason that it just makes the thread worse.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Advice to new managers: don't joke about firing people

#302

Post by dang »

Mc_Big_G wrote: post #255
6gvONxR4sf7o wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This whole "It's really interesting that ..." rhetoric that's been somehow on the rise needs to die. State your point. Since you didn't state it, I have to guess. It seems like you're suggesting that HN is overly forgiving of Trump and overly critical of Obama, which is laughable given how HN treats the current administration. But of course you didn't actually make a point, so nobody else can really address it.

The downvotes refute your assertion. You know exactly what my point is.

Please don't take HN threads into flamewar.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Edit: would you please stop posting unsubstantive and/or flamebait comments to HN? It looks like you've done it repeatedly, and it's really not what this site is for. If you'd review the guidelines and take the intended spirit more to heart here, we'd be grateful.

Re: Advice to new managers: don't joke about firing people

#303

Post by ironmagma »

Non24Throw wrote: post #241
mjayhn wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> To expand on the article’s point, I think the biggest thing young managers don’t understand is that people are going to be insincere to you as a basic showing of respect and a basic desire for career preservation. They’re going to smile and appear to enjoy you and laugh at your jokes and seem ok with everything, much moreso than they otherwise would. I know it's hard and it took me until my 30s with a long career b…

Your perception of the risks associated with providing that feedback isn’t the same as everyone else’s. When you’re young, and especially if you come from a lower income background (where authority is treated as an absolute, and abuse of authority is generally more common and accepted), it can seem very risky and feel very unacceptable to give this kind of feedback to your manager. It’s easy for me to agree with you…

There is also tremendous internal pressure not to rock the boat, if you are in a place with not much job mobility.

Re: Advice to new managers: don't joke about firing people

#304

Post by gowld »

macspoofing wrote: post #152
gowld wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ignorance rather than (intentional) cruelty Yes, and that ignorance is a _privelege_ of power. Most employees don't think they can risk-free joke about firing their boss.

>Yes, and that ignorance is a _privelege_ of power. No it's not. There we go. My statement has as much evidentiary support as yours. Have you ever thought about the usefulness and evidentiary support of using this weird leftist nomenclature to reframe traditionally understood concepts? Like what value did you bring by reframing 'ignorance' as 'privilege' - but 'privilege' not in the sense of the dictionary definition…

With apologies for pulling out the dictionary, but here we go:

https://google.com/search?q=define+privilege

> a special right, advantage, or immunity granted or available only to a particular person or group.

Re: Advice to new managers: don't joke about firing people

#305

Post by throwanem »

Grimm1 wrote: post #245
perl4ever wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could call it transparency. It's vastly better to have someone make you aware of what's up than blindside you or gaslight you by giving contradictory information/demands.

Or you know, have a meeting where your manager directly discusses the issue with you like an adult.

Yeah, exactly. It's pretty wild to see "transparency" invoked in the context of literally talking behind someone's back.

Re: Advice to new managers: don't joke about firing people

#306

Post by Balgair »

CapriciousCptl wrote: post #256
zeroxfe wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This disregards the power imbalance -- lots of employees (especially junior ones) are not comfortable being so firm with their managers.

Part of life is tactfully dealing with people who have power over you. It’s not very comfortable for anyone.

A lot of life is determined by the number of uncomfortable conversations you are willing to have, one way or the other.

Re: Advice to new managers: don't joke about firing people

#307

Post by qntty »

macspoofing wrote: post #290
qntty wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems like a pretty straightforward point to me. Powerful people are punished less for their lack of understanding of less powerful, even though the consequences of their ignorance are worse. Who has more reason to worry, a manager making a joke about firing someone, or an employee making a joke about forming a union with their coworkers? There's a reason that one of these two groups needed to be given legal protecti…

>Seems like a pretty straightforward point to me. I'm sure it does, but it's not. >Powerful people are punished less for their lack of understanding of less powerful That's not true. Or it's true in some situations and not in others. It is also true in some situations of subordinates. >Who has more reason to worry, a manager making a joke about firing someone, or an employee making a joke about forming a union with t…

Yes, I guess nothing is ever that simple. But the fact that you are able to have a dialogue about this shows that leftist nomenclature can lead to understanding in the same way as any other nomenclature, which is the understanding that's developed in a back and forth dialogue about a subject. Maybe if the OP had declared their belief as an unquestionable religious dogma (as many people do with their political opinions), there would be grounds to criticize them, but they didn't.

Re: Advice to new managers: don't joke about firing people

#308

Post by amznthrowaway5 »

wpietri wrote: post #244
dudul wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have significant amount of control? Maybe I've been lucky to be part of mostly healthy organizations, but even managers have to justify/explain decisions. Either be for termination, compensation adjustment, reassigning to a different team, etc. I always had to document and explain why I thought an employee deserved a raise, or should not get a bonus, etc. Even as a director with ~20 reports I don't have unlimi…

You must work at a pretty healthy company. Because those checks also exist at unhealthy companies, but there managers just know how to work the system. E.g., I know somebody whose manager was pushed out for political reasons. Their first meeting with their new boss, the one who did the pushing, was a 90-minute series of accusations and critiques. In the second meeting, they were presented with a letter documenting th…

This is also the experience I've had with PIPs, "performance" reviews and promotions at large companies. Also incompetent but well connected people are some of the most likely to be promoted into management.

Re: Advice to new managers: don't joke about firing people

#309

Post by amznthrowaway5 »

majormajor wrote: post #252
pmarreck wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why, if I ever manage, my focus will be on timely deliverables and not on time-at-desk. Give me a day when you think you can deliver something, update me as soon as you realize you can't ("manage expectations"), and do whatever you want with the rest of your time...

That sounds lovely in theory but gets tricky quick with employees who give you estimates that seem too high, and then don't even meet those. And then you have to figure out if they need help, if they're over their head, if they're being lazy, if they're getting interrupted by stuff that's not on your radar, or WTF is really going on, and if (a) they're not telling you and (b) you have no visibility into their day (sa…

> That sounds lovely in theory but gets tricky quick with employees who give you estimates that seem too high, and then don't even meet those.

How many managers are competent enough to judge that kind of stuff, and whether or not any excuses produced are reasonable? Even in the technical manager cases I've seen, maybe 1%. The people who constantly bs excuses are often the ones rewarded, as opposed to the people who actually focus on the work and take a little longer to get it done properly.

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