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Advice to new managers: don't joke about firing people

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Re: Advice to new managers: don't joke about firing people

#131

Post by pmarreck »

_gfrc wrote: post #14

This is along the lines of "Ha, taking half the day off, are we?" when somebody leaves a little bit earlier than usual. It sounds like (just) a bad joke, but it has severe consequences for your working relationship. I get that it's tempting to make jokes when you start managing for your old team members. Just accept the fact that you've switched positions and that your relationship will change. It will only make it m…

This is why, if I ever manage, my focus will be on timely deliverables and not on time-at-desk. Give me a day when you think you can deliver something, update me as soon as you realize you can't ("manage expectations"), and do whatever you want with the rest of your time...

Re: Advice to new managers: don't joke about firing people

#132

Post by ok_coo »

Don't joke about firing people. Don't joke about using a certain tech or infrastructure because it lets you hire cheaper people. Don't joke about people's housing or what car they own. Don't joke about how people don't have options to go work somewhere else. Don't say to your employee, "let's meet first thing on Monday morning" on a Friday afternoon without being explicit that it's nothing dire.

Don't. You have enormous power over people's lives. Act like it.

Re: Advice to new managers: don't joke about firing people

#133

Post by asadlionpk »

tinyhouse wrote: post #117
jerf wrote: post #36

Similarly, marriage protip: Don't joke about divorces. Even if you think your partner can handle it. Mine can and we still don't do it, as policy. It's a known policy, too; we mentioned it to each other before (briefly, a long time ago, not as some big event). This is certainly far from "the one key to a happy marriage!", but it's a brick in the house. It generally fits into the larger social IQ element of thinking a…

You mean not to joke about it in front of other people? I agree of course. But between you two? seriously... A married couple should be able to talk freely, including about things they don't like. No need to create policies in advance like it's a work relationship between employee/manager. I would worry if my married life looked like a work relationship.

There always are policies in every relationship. Make peace with it.

Re: Advice to new managers: don't joke about firing people

#134

Post by A4ET8a8uTh0 »

kemiller2002 wrote: post #3

This is sound advice. You have a significant amount of control over people's lives as a manager, and that should be treated with a level of respect. You have no idea how people feel, and it is quite possible that someone you manage doesn't know where they stand with you. At times that is more than enough to cause them stress and even convince them to look elsewhere. Work is stressful enough, and you don't need to add…

Agreed. Long time ago I had a manager, who was using his firing history as a motivational tool. He would walk somewhere behind you and tell someone else a story that was supposed to partially mirror a story about you. Very subtle.

He also loved bad jokes, but he was smart enough not to joke about firing people.

Re: Advice to new managers: don't joke about firing people

#135

Post by Aeolun »

imsofuture wrote: post #103
kemiller2002 wrote: post #3

This is sound advice. You have a significant amount of control over people's lives as a manager, and that should be treated with a level of respect. You have no idea how people feel, and it is quite possible that someone you manage doesn't know where they stand with you. At times that is more than enough to cause them stress and even convince them to look elsewhere. Work is stressful enough, and you don't need to add…

If you're a manager, your job is to do things that make you uncomfortable. Yep, one thing I noticed when I moved into a management role, was that the things that would make you move along as an employee, are the things it's now your job to fix or deal with. Maybe this is obvious, but there's kind of a visceral shift in perception that goes along with it.

Jup, I'm not empowered to do anything myself, so I have to rely on you.

If you as my manager are not able to do anything either, we're part of a sick organization, and the only thing to do is leave.

Re: Advice to new managers: don't joke about firing people

#136

Post by zeroonetwothree »

graeme wrote: post #130
tinyhouse wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean not to joke about it in front of other people? I agree of course. But between you two? seriously... A married couple should be able to talk freely, including about things they don't like. No need to create policies in advance like it's a work relationship between employee/manager. I would worry if my married life looked like a work relationship.

This is the sort of comment you should only confidently make if you’re in a happy marriage that has survived at least ten years. Ideally more. If not, you’re speaking in a domain in which you have no experience. Or rather, it’s unclear whether any experience you do have shows expertise. Certain people are more prone to cause divorce than others, and it is dangerous to take advice from the wrong person in this respect…

I’ve been married 15 years and we joke about divorce sometimes (as well as lots of other ‘sensitive’ topics). YMMV

Re: Advice to new managers: don't joke about firing people

#137

Post by Mc_Big_G »

gowld wrote: post #70
sudhirj wrote: post #24

The basic rule of comedy, or making jokes, which is amateur comedy, is that you always punch up. It’s funny when you say “ha! you’re fired!” to your boss, but never when you say it to someone you can actually fire. Same reason why parents (should) never joke about punishment or disciplinary action with their kids - when you have power and authority you also have a responsibility not to belittle it. People will take y…

A US President once gave a speech joking about assassinating the Jonas Brothers with a predator drone to protect his daughter from dating them. https://abcnews.go.com/WN/president-obama-tells-joke-jonas-b... (Not singling out that President, but the incident was shocking.)

Obama: 1 bad joke

45: Infinity bad jokes

Interesting who we choose which to focus on.

Re: Advice to new managers: don't joke about firing people

#138

Post by JoshTriplett »

groby_b wrote: post #107
binarytox1n wrote: post #53

I agree with the sentiment wholeheartedly - It’s easy for technical people promoted to a people management role not to realize that their words now have a significantly greater affect on morale. The author did a good job expanding on situations that are now not funny, but here’s another one that I see all the time: Butts in seats. As a manager, anything you say about the clock, the vacancy ratio of an employees chair…

Yep. And it only gets worse as your scope grows. There comes a point where you'll say something like "Huh, that looks interesting, I wonder what would happen if X", just because you still have some engineering thinking left in you, and three weeks later you'll get word that somebody spun up a working group to investigate X. If you ever wondered why manager emails to a large team always look super-formal? We've touche…

> There comes a point where you'll say something like "Huh, that looks interesting, I wonder what would happen if X", just because you still have some engineering thinking left in you, and three weeks later you'll get word that somebody spun up a working group to investigate X.

This is somewhat avoidable. You can communicate this to your team. You can make it clear you invite feedback and corrections, and demonstrating that in practice by responding well when people take you up on that. You can ask questions in a way that invites answers. You can make your relative level of expertise clear in an area when you ask questions.

And on the occasions when this still happens, sometimes it'll be because your musings sparked an idea in someone, and they thought it was a good idea to investigate X.

Re: Advice to new managers: don't joke about firing people

#140

Post by jasonlotito »

mc32 wrote: post #119
blowfish721 wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At my current position it's quite usual for my manager to ask why I'm still at the office when it's 3:30PM on a friday. One of the reasons I'm still working where I am.

If I were manager I would not even imply that I’m time aware either way, unless there is an ongoing issue (someone staying too late often), (or someone who is not putting in an effort). Otherwise why even bring up your consciousness of time? It signals you’re tracking it one way or another. Edit: for addressing burnout, overwork, etc., for me personally I would start with bringing up the issue in team meetings. Do we…

I'm a manager. Why bring this up? To watch for people working too much and potential burn out. If people are working excessively, that's not good for them or the company. I want to be able to rely on people. That means knowing how much they can do. This means if they are putting in extra hours now, I come to expect that level of output from them. This is not fair to them, and not fair for the company. I don't want them burning out. I don't want them feeling as if they have to work excessive hours.

This is also why I actively encourage taking time as needed and being flexible when it comes to taking time off to take care of things during the day. It's a non-issue. Finally, it's why I pay attention to taking vacations. I actively encourage it. Often people feel the pressure of deadlines which are always looming. Through my actions, they don't feel as if they can never take time off.

Yes, I can see how you might feel if someone is watching your work hours. But it's not a single thing. It's a continuous effort and comes from a relationship you develop with the people you manage.

When I ask people why they are still working at a certain time, they know why I'm asking. The net result has been really positive for my team.

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