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CDC says stop vaping as mystery lung condition spreads

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Re: CDC says stop vaping as mystery lung condition spreads

#301

Post by michitan »

LinuxBender wrote: post #195
whatisthiseven wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here is the conclusion of that study to save a click: "Based on the results of this study, there is no evidence that theatrical "smoke," at the levels found in the theaters studied, is a cause of occupational asthma among performers. Some of the constituents of theatrical "smoke," such as the aerolized glycols and mineral oil, could have irritative or mucous membrane drying properties in some individuals. Therefore,…

What grade of glycol is used in a vape and are they required by law to state what grade it is?

Mainstream vendors use USP grade PG/VG and food grade flavouring (which can also include a small amount of PG or VG as a carrier)

Re: CDC says stop vaping as mystery lung condition spreads

#302

Post by amluto »

ac29 wrote: post #298
chrshawkes wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

18 and 19 year olds are in commas, dead right now, or will be soon. This is killing people far faster than cigarettes. I'm of the opinion the small fraction of people claiming they only smoked nicotine are probably lying for reasons mentioned before. They are young kids who don't want to disappoint their families with the fact that they are now dying at a very young age from what used to be a mostly harmless activity…

> 18 and 19 year olds are in commas, dead right now, or will be soon. This is killing people far faster than cigarettes. According to the article, 5 people have died due to this vaping related illness. By contrast, cigarette smoking kills 480,000 people a year in the US: https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/fact_sheets/heal...

And this is a more or less useless comparison. Juul has only existed at all for about 4 years. Smoking kills huge numbers of people, but not in 4 years.

AFAIK, the data is consistent with vaping being more dangerous than smoking.

For what it’s worth, humans evolved in the presence of fire. Plant smoke, while quite dangerous, is something that mammal lungs have dealt with, in moderation, forever. Whatever chemical soup is present in vaping vapor is new. And saying “it’s just glycerol” makes no sense. Glycerol has very small vapor pressure at body temperature and boils well above the boiling point of water. Some websites suggest that the actual output from vaping is quite nasty indeed.

Re: CDC says stop vaping as mystery lung condition spreads

#304

Post by sdinsn »

Kiro wrote: post #295
sdinsn wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vaping is not more deadly than smoking cigarettes.

We'll see.

Do you not understand how deadly cigarettes are?

~34 million people smoke cigarettes in the US. US deaths from smoking is ~500k/yr.

Meanwhile, over 10 million vape in the US. US deaths from vaping is... only 5 people since vaping existed? And those deaths are likely from vaping juice that contains oils, rather than standard vape juice.

Re: CDC says stop vaping as mystery lung condition spreads

#305

Post by dragonwriter »

Reelin wrote: post #117
cowsandmilk wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The other is almost entirely a mixture of Propylene Glycol and Vegetable Glycerin. What an extraordinary meaningless statement. The question is the health effects of vaporizing those and inhaling them (along with other ingredients). You are happy to provide links about health effects of cigarettes, including ingredients present in n minute amounts, but will only provide a list of major ingredients in vaping product…

> > The other is almost entirely a mixture of Propylene Glycol and Vegetable Glycerin. > What an extraordinary meaningless statement. Not at all. The point being made is that we're dealing with a product composed primarily (99%) of two chemicals that are very clearly established as safe for human consumption (propylene glycol is commonly _injected_). As such, it seems unreasonable to assume absent evidence that the c…

> very clearly established as safe for human consumption (propylene glycol is commonly _injected_).

Consumption, injection, and inhalation are very different routes of introduction to the body, and safe for any one does not imply safe for the others.

Many things that will cause no problem if injected or eaten will cause problems in the lungs.

Re: CDC says stop vaping as mystery lung condition spreads

#306

Post by brokensegue »

lonelappde wrote: post #255
keithwhor wrote: post #224

When the CDC tells people to stop eating a specific food because of disease outbreak, even if rare, people stop eating that food. When you dive in to the comments here, keep in mind a number of the posts are from addicts minimizing cognitive dissonance. The internet would’ve looked the same when cigarettes were first blamed for lung disease as well.

When there is an e coli outbreak, authorities are very specific about which batch of produce was affected. They don't say to stop eating all spinach or all vegetables.

In 2016, all bagged spinach was recalled nationwide.

>The U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) called for bagged fresh spinach to be removed from shelves and warned people not to eat any kind of fresh spinach or fresh spinach-containing products

It happens.

Re: CDC says stop vaping as mystery lung condition spreads

#307

Post by Kiro »

chroma wrote: post #299
Kiro wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We'll see.

Are you willing to bet money on that? I'm willing to bet any amount up to 1 BTC (≈10,000 USD) that in the next decade, there will not be a year in which the CDC attributes more deaths to vaping than smoking. I'm also willing to bet on similar statements that would be true if vaping is more harmful than smoking. If you want, we can find a neutral arbiter to determine the outcome of our predictions, though they may wan…

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/09/11/health/vaping-lung-illnes...

Re: CDC says stop vaping as mystery lung condition spreads

#308

Post by chroma »

Kiro wrote: post #307
chroma wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you willing to bet money on that? I'm willing to bet any amount up to 1 BTC (≈10,000 USD) that in the next decade, there will not be a year in which the CDC attributes more deaths to vaping than smoking. I'm also willing to bet on similar statements that would be true if vaping is more harmful than smoking. If you want, we can find a neutral arbiter to determine the outcome of our predictions, though they may wan…

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/09/11/health/vaping-lung-illnes...

> Eventually, Adam said that he went from vaping over-the-counter e-liquids to vaping THC or tetrahydrocannabinol, which is the main psychoactive component of marijuana. Adam would get the THC from "a friend" or dealer. Over time, Adam said that he developed shivers and couldn't control them. Then, the vomiting began.

A very small number of people are getting sick and dying because they're vaping black market THC cartridges. Most vapers are doing nicotine, and they're buying Juuls and other brand name products that are much safer than smoking.

I ask again: Are you willing to bet money that the CDC will attribute more deaths to vaping than smoking (or some similar statement that would be true if vaping was deadlier than smoking)? If you're so sure you're right, why don't you take my money?

Re: CDC says stop vaping as mystery lung condition spreads

#309

Post by tdy_err »

cptskippy wrote: post #244
zaphar wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All three of those elements are not usually vaporized and then inhaled in large quantities. Extrapolation from their effects when ingested is unlikely to apply in these cases. Your conclusion does not follow from the evidence.

This is the point everyone seems to be missing. Everyone is defending the ingredients as being safe but it's like defending water as being safe in when you have a patient who has steam related third degree burns.

My remarks were made in context where it is being claimed that “a new mystery ingredient” is cause for concern. I stated what ingredients are used as a point about how unlikely it would be for something out-of-the-blue to permeate the market.

Re: CDC says stop vaping as mystery lung condition spreads

#310

Post by tdy_err »

dragonwriter wrote: post #245
tdy_err wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Three are and have always been three components of e-liquid: - propylene glycol (used in ice-cream soda etc) - vegetable glycerin - food flavoring Besides proportions changing the only other variant is the type of flavoring. It's not actually too complicated. And If one of those ingredients was suddenly tainted people using vaporizers would not be the only ones affected, of course.

The digestive system and the respiratory system are quite different systems. You can safely drink lots of water. A fairly small quantity in your lungs is a big problem.

My remarks were made in context where it is being claimed that “a new mystery ingredient” is cause for concern. I stated what ingredients are used as a point about how unlikely it would be for something out-of-the-blue to permeate the market.
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