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U.S. Secretly Obtains Two Months of A.P. Phone Records

nytimes.com

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Re: U.S. Secretly Obtains Two Months of A.P. Phone Records

#31

Post by hga »

sneak wrote: post #16
hga wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

" Second amendment's been gone for a while. " Not even close. True if you live in one of 10 very bad states, two of which oddly are shall issue concealed carry ones that just went very bad (Connecticut and Colorado), but continuing that concealed carry theme, i.e. the "bear" in "the right to keep and bear arms" (RKBA), there's been a nationwide sweep of shall issue, starting in Florida in 1987 and ending with Iowa an…

I frequent NYC, Chicago, and SF. Try again. What I'm pointing out is that when you have people like Bloomberg and Emanuel individually violating double-digit millions of individuals' constitutional rights on their whims, you don't have a free society. Whether it's RKBA this month or the right to peaceably assemble during a political convention in an election year, they get to pick and choose which rights you are allo…

Those are in the 10 of the worst states, and they're the worst cities in each of the states, all but SF with their own, special, even worse laws (California has preemption, which means SF gun law is a constant of wack-a-mole, although of course they issue concealed carry licenses just about never, e.g. exactly 1 last year, to a jewler).

I was born, raised, and have retired to Missouri, which once it shook off its "KKK" post-Civil War anti-gun laws in the last decade has ... well, kept up with the rest of the "good" states. When I lived in Arlington, Virginia it was also good. Massachusetts for college and work for a dozen years ... not good at all, much worse today.

So due to the wonders of Federalism I believe I've lived in a free society since 1991; you, obviously not so much. And it's not a month to month thing, e.g. NY's Sullivan Act comes from 1911, when the Irish NYC Tammany Hall machine wanted to keep newer immigrants in their place.

But I agree its a very big problem, about 1/3 of our nation's population are by definition subjects, not citizens, and this makes me think about Lincoln's "'A house divided against itself cannot stand.' I believe this government cannot endure, permanently half slave and half free."

As for the political convention, I suspect you and I have different definitions of "peaceably assemble", plus I see no inherent issues with suppressing protests at a political convention. That's not what I understand that part of the 1st Amendment to be protecting, rather, it e.g. protects each of the conventions, where people are peaceably assembling as part of politics. I submit to you that it is at least a debatable point.

Re: U.S. Secretly Obtains Two Months of A.P. Phone Records

#32

Post by hga »

sixothree wrote: post #26
sneak wrote: post #5

Second amendment's been gone for a while. Fifth and fourteenth haven't been seen in a minute, either. Peaceable assembly's overrated anyway. (RNC '04) How much of the first needs to be gone until it's enough to recognize that the USA is no longer a free society? How many whistleblowers, security researchers, and cryptographers need to be thrown in prison on bullshit trumped-up charges? How many hunger-striking politi…

Yes, all of those gun friendly countries are doing so well and would love to have you.

There's always Switzerland, although I expect it to go to hell WRT to guns in due course, they've been moving in that direction for some time.

Re: U.S. Secretly Obtains Two Months of A.P. Phone Records

#33

Post by hga »

MartinCron wrote: post #29
DanielBMarkham wrote: post #22

So inside of just a few days, we have political opposition groups targeted for audits -- including questions about donors and volunteers -- and surveillance of the press. The easier we make it for some analyst in FBI headquarters to determine everywhere a potential terrorist cell has been, the easier we make it for some other analyst to conduct political spying and harassment like the world has never seen before. You…

we have political opposition groups targeted for audits That could be extremely ugly politics, or it may not be. Paying special attention to tax status compliance of anti-tax activists might just be a pragmatic profiling. Kind of like giving extra attention to young men flying alone on one way tickets while checking no luggage.

You really should check your facts before simply repeating the current party line. The acknowledged scope of the targeted investigations is so wildly beyond "anti-tax activists" the mind boggles. And see also e.g. Z Street's allegations about being questioned WRT to its views et. al. of Israel.

Re: U.S. Secretly Obtains Two Months of A.P. Phone Records

#34

Post by cpursley »

sneak wrote: post #5

Second amendment's been gone for a while. Fifth and fourteenth haven't been seen in a minute, either. Peaceable assembly's overrated anyway. (RNC '04) How much of the first needs to be gone until it's enough to recognize that the USA is no longer a free society? How many whistleblowers, security researchers, and cryptographers need to be thrown in prison on bullshit trumped-up charges? How many hunger-striking politi…

"It's time to emigrate."

I'm up for it, but where?

Re: U.S. Secretly Obtains Two Months of A.P. Phone Records

#35

Post by MartinCron »

hga wrote: post #33
MartinCron wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

we have political opposition groups targeted for audits That could be extremely ugly politics, or it may not be. Paying special attention to tax status compliance of anti-tax activists might just be a pragmatic profiling. Kind of like giving extra attention to young men flying alone on one way tickets while checking no luggage.

You really should check your facts before simply repeating the current party line. The acknowledged scope of the targeted investigations is so wildly beyond "anti-tax activists" the mind boggles. And see also e.g. Z Street's allegations about being questioned WRT to its views et. al. of Israel.

simply repeating the current party line

No, the party line is that that targeting some groups is "Outrageous". I'm taking the unpopular contrarian position that maybe some organizations are more prone to be compliant with tax laws than others.

Re: U.S. Secretly Obtains Two Months of A.P. Phone Records

#36

Post by bicknergseng »

sneak wrote: post #5

Second amendment's been gone for a while. Fifth and fourteenth haven't been seen in a minute, either. Peaceable assembly's overrated anyway. (RNC '04) How much of the first needs to be gone until it's enough to recognize that the USA is no longer a free society? How many whistleblowers, security researchers, and cryptographers need to be thrown in prison on bullshit trumped-up charges? How many hunger-striking politi…

>It's time to emigrate.

I think the Civil Rights Movement would like to have a word with you.

Re: U.S. Secretly Obtains Two Months of A.P. Phone Records

#38

Post by lolcraft »

sneak wrote: post #5

Second amendment's been gone for a while. Fifth and fourteenth haven't been seen in a minute, either. Peaceable assembly's overrated anyway. (RNC '04) How much of the first needs to be gone until it's enough to recognize that the USA is no longer a free society? How many whistleblowers, security researchers, and cryptographers need to be thrown in prison on bullshit trumped-up charges? How many hunger-striking politi…

> Peaceable assembly's overrated anyway. (RNC '04)

You mean the assembly whose Wikipedia page has... ?

"Expected security expenditures reached $70 million, $50 million of which was funded by the federal government."

"The NYPD infiltrated and compiled dossiers on protest groups (most of whom were doing nothing illegal), leading to over 1,800 arrests and subsequent fingerprinting."

"Over 1800 individuals were arrested by the authorities, a record for a political convention in the U.S. However 90% of those charges were eventually dropped."

Wow! Indeed, a great failure of the right to peaceful assembly!

(Who were they protesting against, anyway? An illegal act of war? Their leaders, who had lied to them into said war? Minutiae.)

Re: U.S. Secretly Obtains Two Months of A.P. Phone Records

#40

Post by vacri »

hga wrote: post #32
sixothree wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, all of those gun friendly countries are doing so well and would love to have you.

There's always Switzerland, although I expect it to go to hell WRT to guns in due course, they've been moving in that direction for some time.

Swiss ownership of guns is nothing like US ownership. 'guns per capita' doesn't illuminate anything about the significant cultural differences.
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