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U.S. Secretly Obtains Two Months of A.P. Phone Records

nytimes.com

21–30 of 241 posts

Re: U.S. Secretly Obtains Two Months of A.P. Phone Records

#21
post #12
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It has always been OK to subpoena reporters. Reporters enjoy no special protections in federal law.

But for their sources? Am I missing something or is that obviously not OK?

The press believes it is not ok, and some of them have spent time in jail to avoid revealing their sources. There are no special protections from a legal perspective, however.

Re: U.S. Secretly Obtains Two Months of A.P. Phone Records

#22
So inside of just a few days, we have political opposition groups targeted for audits -- including questions about donors and volunteers -- and surveillance of the press.

The easier we make it for some analyst in FBI headquarters to determine everywhere a potential terrorist cell has been, the easier we make it for some other analyst to conduct political spying and harassment like the world has never seen before. You can't pick one and not get the other.

In many, many ways, the political side of this is the worst part. This has nothing to do with parties or politics. It's the normal and automatic result of the creation of systems without appropriate checks and balances.

Re: U.S. Secretly Obtains Two Months of A.P. Phone Records

#23
post #19
post #5

Second amendment's been gone for a while. Fifth and fourteenth haven't been seen in a minute, either. Peaceable assembly's overrated anyway. (RNC '04) How much of the first needs to be gone until it's enough to recognize that the USA is no longer a free society? How many whistleblowers, security researchers, and cryptographers need to be thrown in prison on bullshit trumped-up charges? How many hunger-striking politi…

If people emigrated when the government was literally killing striking union organizers (e.g. the "Wobblies"), holding Nisei captive, holding blacks in bondage, locking up political dissidents (e.g. Lincoln), infecting the poor with syphilis, or ruining the lives of countless suspected Communists with the full authority of the state... just imagine how far worse off we'd be. Leaving is always your choice, but the U.S…

> just imagine how far worse off we'd be.

"We" in this sentence would refer to the people who stayed.

Don't be one of those.

Re: U.S. Secretly Obtains Two Months of A.P. Phone Records

#24
post #12
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It has always been OK to subpoena reporters. Reporters enjoy no special protections in federal law.

But for their sources? Am I missing something or is that obviously not OK?

It's allowable. In fact I thought last decade some reporter went to prison for years for "contempt of court" for refusing to comply with a valid subpoena (but I forget the name).

Re: U.S. Secretly Obtains Two Months of A.P. Phone Records

#26
post #5

Second amendment's been gone for a while. Fifth and fourteenth haven't been seen in a minute, either. Peaceable assembly's overrated anyway. (RNC '04) How much of the first needs to be gone until it's enough to recognize that the USA is no longer a free society? How many whistleblowers, security researchers, and cryptographers need to be thrown in prison on bullshit trumped-up charges? How many hunger-striking politi…

Yes, all of those gun friendly countries are doing so well and would love to have you.

Re: U.S. Secretly Obtains Two Months of A.P. Phone Records

#27
post #23
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If people emigrated when the government was literally killing striking union organizers (e.g. the "Wobblies"), holding Nisei captive, holding blacks in bondage, locking up political dissidents (e.g. Lincoln), infecting the poor with syphilis, or ruining the lives of countless suspected Communists with the full authority of the state... just imagine how far worse off we'd be. Leaving is always your choice, but the U.S…

> just imagine how far worse off we'd be. "We" in this sentence would refer to the people who stayed. Don't be one of those.

Fair enough. I had meant "world in general" given the current status of the U.S. as a hyperpower, but I can see how that is playing "butterfly effect", which is a game none of us can figure out.

Re: U.S. Secretly Obtains Two Months of A.P. Phone Records

#29

So inside of just a few days, we have political opposition groups targeted for audits -- including questions about donors and volunteers -- and surveillance of the press. The easier we make it for some analyst in FBI headquarters to determine everywhere a potential terrorist cell has been, the easier we make it for some other analyst to conduct political spying and harassment like the world has never seen before. You…

we have political opposition groups targeted for audits

That could be extremely ugly politics, or it may not be. Paying special attention to tax status compliance of anti-tax activists might just be a pragmatic profiling. Kind of like giving extra attention to young men flying alone on one way tickets while checking no luggage.

Re: U.S. Secretly Obtains Two Months of A.P. Phone Records

#30
post #24
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But for their sources? Am I missing something or is that obviously not OK?

It's allowable. In fact I thought last decade some reporter went to prison for years for "contempt of court" for refusing to comply with a valid subpoena (but I forget the name).

Judith Miller was jailed for refusing to out Bush administration sources who outed Valerie Plame's status as a covert operative as political retribution.
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