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Discriminatory attitudes against the unvaccinated during a global pandemic

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Re: Discriminatory attitudes against the unvaccinated during a global pandemic

#31

Post by DeetrixDotter »

thot_experiment wrote: post #13
DeetrixDotter wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

Ok but like, we don't let the unlicensed drive cars either because that is you know, dangerous to other humans. Some of the reactions you're describing are extreme for sure, but the fundamental idea of refusing rights to people who don't care about the safety of others is sound and important to a working society.

There's a big difference, legally and morally, between not granting a positive right (eg. a licence to drive cars) and violently denying negative rights (eg. meeting with family, being in public, peacefully seeking basic needs, speech).

Acquiring a licence does not require an experimental gene therapy with alarming or unknown side effects.

As the dust is settling and more is becoming known, will apologies be forthcoming? Can forgiveness ever be expected for the terrible and life-changing oppression imposed and encouraged over the last few years?

Re: Discriminatory attitudes against the unvaccinated during a global pandemic

#32

Post by BitwiseFool »

What surprised me the most was just how vicious and cruel the people in my life could be towards the unvaccinated. It went beyond mere schadenfreude. Many of my otherwise tolerant and empathetic friends eagerly ate up any and all news about anti-vaxxers suffering or even outright dying.

I don't know how much of this was a result of them getting caught up in the social media bandwagon (Twitter, r/HermanCainAward) or because this was the most significant and close to home "us vs. them" situation in our lives up until this point.

Re: Discriminatory attitudes against the unvaccinated during a global pandemic

#33

Post by ZeroGravitas »

barbariangrunge wrote: post #5

I have a friend who is allergic to many vaccines. A bad reaction as a kid led to him needing years of rehab. He's also high risk for Covid. He's pro-vaccine in general I guess I should add, but his doctor told him to not get the covid shots because the risk was too high Whenever I mention that it's cruel to exclude people like him from society, due to vaccine requirements, when people like him are presumably what all…

I'd assumed that such people got medical exemptions in most countries:

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/nhs-covid-pass#if-you-are-unable...

But maybe all the people respondng to your comments online where from nations that didn't do this.

Re: Discriminatory attitudes against the unvaccinated during a global pandemic

#34

Post by luckylion »

throwaway22032 wrote: post #16
DoreenMichele wrote: post #9

When I was growing up, they counted anyone who got vaccinated against something as a "success." So if 80 percent got vaccinated for X, they bragged about that. These days, we count anyone who didn't get vaccinated as a failure and bellyache about that 20 percent that "won't cooperate" and malign them as problem children who don't have a good reason for their choices. It's a dramatic change in attitude and it's very s…

In my view it's tantamount to abuse, because ultimately what it does is erodes trust. If you're shouting at someone to do something over and over again, eventually they just stop listening to you and try to get away from you. The correct way is to explain to them the reasons that you feel it's good for them, or for those around them, and then let them make the decision. Otherwise you're acting as a parent. You're not…

> The correct way is to explain to them the reasons that you feel it's good for them, or for those around them, and then let them make the decision.

The problem is, at least for many societies, that we don't operate on "you get to choose, but you have to live with the consequences". If you choose not to get vaccinated because you want to avoid becoming a walking 5g transmitter programmed by Bill Gates, and you get sick and need emergency care, you're not going to be denied because you made the choice and knew the risk, which has implications for everyone else, because emergency care is limited etc etc.

Re: Discriminatory attitudes against the unvaccinated during a global pandemic

#35

Post by wellthisisgreat »

DeetrixDotter wrote: post #8
jgeada wrote: post #3

Quoted post unavailable.

Quoted post unavailable.

Unvaccinated decided that their beliefs that are contradictory to public health interests are more important than public health interests. Public decided that it is not interested in having those people participate in public life. Shocking.

Well this obviously relates to people who don't vaccinate out of ideology.

Re: Discriminatory attitudes against the unvaccinated during a global pandemic

#36

Post by curmudgeon22 »

adamrezich wrote: post #4

how's everyone else from the control group doing these days? things were never really that bad, discrimination-wise, here in South Dakota, but what was/is it like everywhere else? (edit: wow I thought we were, as a collective, Largely Over It now—guess that's not the case! I'm glad things aren't as bad as they are in this thread where I live! one has to wonder though: how long will this deep-seated emotion-based disc…

I'm in Canada, near Vancouver. It's mostly back to normal now, but for a long time:

* couldn't visit restaurants

* couldn't fly/take a train/take a ferry

Still can't:

* Visit my grandparents at their retirement home

* Visit the USA

The general opinion as that you should be vaccinated, but it mostly doesn't come up now. The government is currently passing legislation so they can better mandate vaccination to medical professionals as well as suppress dissenting opinions by those professionals.

Based on the words and actions of the federal government, i've definitely felt like a second class citizen.

Re: Discriminatory attitudes against the unvaccinated during a global pandemic

#38

Post by jeffbee »

hackerlight wrote: post #19
barbariangrunge wrote: post #5

I have a friend who is allergic to many vaccines. A bad reaction as a kid led to him needing years of rehab. He's also high risk for Covid. He's pro-vaccine in general I guess I should add, but his doctor told him to not get the covid shots because the risk was too high Whenever I mention that it's cruel to exclude people like him from society, due to vaccine requirements, when people like him are presumably what all…

> a little mob came together to denounce the idea and say that he absolutely should never be allowed in public again. Emphasis on "little", I suppose? This sounds like a strawman. I don't think many would have argued that someone with a legitimate medical reason to not get vaccinated should be excluded from anything.

How would it even come to be known? If I was allergic to a vaccine and someone asked me about my vaccines I would say "I have taken every vaccine I am able to" or something like that.

Exclusion of the willingly unvaccinated is possible and widespread mainly because such people are surprisingly vocal and bring up the topic without prompting.

Re: Discriminatory attitudes against the unvaccinated during a global pandemic

#39

Post by TrevorJ »

alsetmusic wrote: post #27
barbariangrunge wrote: post #5

I have a friend who is allergic to many vaccines. A bad reaction as a kid led to him needing years of rehab. He's also high risk for Covid. He's pro-vaccine in general I guess I should add, but his doctor told him to not get the covid shots because the risk was too high Whenever I mention that it's cruel to exclude people like him from society, due to vaccine requirements, when people like him are presumably what all…

> Whenever I mention that it's cruel to exclude people like him from society, due to vaccine requirements I know that I’ve only advocated for people who are voluntarily unvaxxed, but medically eligible, face increased scrutiny. I would never suggest anything of the sort for your friend. That’d be like discriminating against someone who requires a wheelchair or cannot see.

I think that's reasonable. It's a shame this viewpoint was almost totally absent from the discussion over the last few years. Incredibly disappointing.

Re: Discriminatory attitudes against the unvaccinated during a global pandemic

#40

Post by mike_hearn »

hackerlight wrote: post #19
barbariangrunge wrote: post #5

I have a friend who is allergic to many vaccines. A bad reaction as a kid led to him needing years of rehab. He's also high risk for Covid. He's pro-vaccine in general I guess I should add, but his doctor told him to not get the covid shots because the risk was too high Whenever I mention that it's cruel to exclude people like him from society, due to vaccine requirements, when people like him are presumably what all…

> a little mob came together to denounce the idea and say that he absolutely should never be allowed in public again. Emphasis on "little", I suppose? This sounds like a strawman. I don't think many would have argued that someone with a legitimate medical reason to not get vaccinated should be excluded from anything.

Very few argued that, but it's what happened. Recall that COVID unvaccinated non-citizens still may not enter the USA for any reason.
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