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Leaked NPD(German right wing party) donors-list meets Google maps

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Re: Leaked NPD(German right wing party) donors-list meets Google maps

#31

Post by hugh3 »

VMG wrote: post #26
FrojoS wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My opinion: In a democracy, ideally every one should have the same amount of voting power. Independent of social status, power and wealth. Secret of vote, is there to prevent bribery and blackmail. Hence, even a poor and powerless person can vote, according to their heart. In contrast, donations to politicians and parties, are an attempt to "buy" elections.

You could make it so that even the receiver of the donation doesn't know where the money comes from.

I heard this idea somewhere else recently, and I think it's brilliant. Instead of limiting sizes of political donations, just make it impossible to track who gave 'em. Oh sure, you can still tell your favourite politician "Hey, I just gave you ten thousand dollars" but they can't possibly check.

Closing a few obvious loopholes: you should only be able to donate in certain nice round numbers ($10, $20, $50, $100, ... $10,000, $20,000) to avoid situations where you can tell a politician "Hey, the $15433.33 donation is from me" and have them confirm it. And it should be fuzzy in time, too -- politicians shouldn't know when a donation came in with resolution greater than a week or so.

It's great, because people are still free to support their favourite politicians as much as they like, but with greatly decreased possibility for corruption.

Politicians will, of course, hate it, so it'll never happen.

Re: Leaked NPD(German right wing party) donors-list meets Google maps

#33

Post by hugh3 »

First they came for the yada yada yada...

I really wish that before deploying a tactic like this against their political enemies folks would stop and consider what the world would be like if the shoe was on the other foot and their political enemies were deploying it against them.

But a seriously large number of people seem to have an attitude that "It's okay, we can do this, we're the good guys".

Re: Leaked NPD(German right wing party) donors-list meets Google maps

#34

Post by anamax »

JabavuAdams wrote: post #30
nickik wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not a big fan of patriotism either but saying your proud of your country is basiclly what almost everybody in every country sais.

You must not be Canadian. The whole "I'm proud to be X" would sound a bit rude or ignorant in my circles.

> The whole "I'm proud to be X" would sound a bit rude or ignorant in my circles.

Of course it's rude. Everyone knows that you're supposed to say "I'm happy/proud to not be an American."

Re: Leaked NPD(German right wing party) donors-list meets Google maps

#35

Post by JabavuAdams »

anamax wrote: post #34
JabavuAdams wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You must not be Canadian. The whole "I'm proud to be X" would sound a bit rude or ignorant in my circles.

> The whole "I'm proud to be X" would sound a bit rude or ignorant in my circles. Of course it's rude. Everyone knows that you're supposed to say "I'm happy/proud to not be an American."

No, that's not what I'm getting at. I'm trying to convey a different perspective.

For example very few houses or business here have flags. It's mostly a car-dealership / cottage thing.

It's actually just jarring to see how many flags are on display in the US even without getting into political sympathies. It's the visual equivalent of someone shouting in public.

Re: Leaked NPD(German right wing party) donors-list meets Google maps

#36

Post by nickik »

darklajid wrote: post #24
nickik wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not a big fan of patriotism either but saying your proud of your country is basiclly what almost everybody in every country sais.

I agree with his points (now): It's not the pride in itself (we can argue if that is helpful, but that's not what mhd critizises). It's the phrase used (or - a couple of phrases, plus maybe the general tone) that leads to really nasty subtext. The translation is incomplete. He didn't write "Ich bin stolz auf Deutschland" (I'm proud of Germany), he used "Ich bin ein stolzer Deutscher" (I'm a proud German), a phrase th…

Im from Switzerland im well awair of what you translated I agree that the phrase is (ab)used by the extremist but just because somebody sais it I would say he is a extremist. A person that hacked NPD isn't like an extremist just somebody that probebly is just a bit to much of a patriot. You can find enought people like that and the are not all extremists.

Re: Leaked NPD(German right wing party) donors-list meets Google maps

#37

Post by nickik »

JabavuAdams wrote: post #30
nickik wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not a big fan of patriotism either but saying your proud of your country is basiclly what almost everybody in every country sais.

You must not be Canadian. The whole "I'm proud to be X" would sound a bit rude or ignorant in my circles.

My point is that just because somebody sais something like that you should just juge him to be a nazi. Spezially if that someone just hacked some nazis.

Re: Leaked NPD(German right wing party) donors-list meets Google maps

#38

Post by VMG »

hugh3 wrote: post #31
VMG wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could make it so that even the receiver of the donation doesn't know where the money comes from.

I heard this idea somewhere else recently, and I think it's brilliant. Instead of limiting sizes of political donations, just make it impossible to track who gave 'em. Oh sure, you can still tell your favourite politician "Hey, I just gave you ten thousand dollars" but they can't possibly check. Closing a few obvious loopholes: you should only be able to donate in certain nice round numbers ($10, $20, $50, $100, ...…

They don't even have to know the amount of the transactions. The "campaign donation bureau" can only releases monthly balances.

Re: Leaked NPD(German right wing party) donors-list meets Google maps

#39

Post by adimitrov »

zwieback wrote: post #32

I'm a little surprised that there weren't higher concentrations in areas that I usually associate with ultra-conservative views, e.g. the rural South.

The rural southern areas are conservative, not fascist — though their conservatism usually implies a bit of racism, that doesn't mean that they tend to support radical fascism. They're usually too scared to ruin their public or neighborhood image.

The "battle for the heads" (Kampf um die Köpfe in German; how the NPD's and similar right-wing institutions' propaganda battle is often referred to in German media,) targets mostly bored and disillusioned youth, and is more successful in the poorer East than it would be in the well-off South.

Re: Leaked NPD(German right wing party) donors-list meets Google maps

#40

Post by lupatus »

mhd wrote: post #11
radiosnob wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

as a non-german living in germany, why?

We had some bad experiences with "Deutschland über Alles" a couple of years ago, so "proud to be a German" and things like that are frowned upon, as they evoke the wrong images. I leave the discussion about the merits of patriotism out of this, as it really doesn't matter that much here. This is more about advertising than content, and repeating the now unsung verses of the national anthem is generally considered a b…

Two points:

1. "Das Lied der Deutschen," which starts with the phrase, "Deutschland, Deutschland über Alles," happens to have been penned by one of my ancestors, August Heinrich Hoffman von Fallersleben. Interestingly, it is not about Germany conquering foreign nations, but how the German-speaking peoples should unite in a republic instead of a rabble of principalities and kingdoms. Hoffman von Fallersleben wrote it in 1841 in support of the liberal revolutionary ideals of pan-German unity (as opposed to the reactionary aristocratic positions).

2. Granted Nazis and the Holocaust are bad things, but what is wrong with having pride in your country? Nations, in both the sense of geography and the sense of culturally related groups, are literally and figuratively large families. Telling someone that he should not have pride in his country because it infringes your sensibilities is telling him that he should not have pride in himself - and that is very offensive. It says that he has nothing worth preserving or cultivating and that all he may be is repulsive. Remember, no nation's history is blemishless.

For those curious, I am a flag-waving American and proud of it.

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