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Leaked NPD(German right wing party) donors-list meets Google maps

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Re: Leaked NPD(German right wing party) donors-list meets Google maps

#11

Post by mhd »

radiosnob wrote: post #10
mhd wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I am a proud German, I love Germany above everything, and I do everything in my power to improve the image of Germany." First step: Don't ever talk like that.

as a non-german living in germany, why?

We had some bad experiences with "Deutschland über Alles" a couple of years ago, so "proud to be a German" and things like that are frowned upon, as they evoke the wrong images.

I leave the discussion about the merits of patriotism out of this, as it really doesn't matter that much here. This is more about advertising than content, and repeating the now unsung verses of the national anthem is generally considered a bit more than just a faux pas and causes legions of British reporters to perk up their ears...

Re: Leaked NPD(German right wing party) donors-list meets Google maps

#12

Post by batterseapower »

Why is it that people support secret ballot, but not secret donation? Both are forms of political support, and making them public can in theory prevent people from expressing their true views. So why is the secrecy of one protected, but not the other?

Re: Leaked NPD(German right wing party) donors-list meets Google maps

#13

Post by nickik »

mhd wrote: post #11
radiosnob wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

as a non-german living in germany, why?

We had some bad experiences with "Deutschland über Alles" a couple of years ago, so "proud to be a German" and things like that are frowned upon, as they evoke the wrong images. I leave the discussion about the merits of patriotism out of this, as it really doesn't matter that much here. This is more about advertising than content, and repeating the now unsung verses of the national anthem is generally considered a b…

I'm not a big fan of patriotism either but saying your proud of your country is basiclly what almost everybody in every country sais.

Re: Leaked NPD(German right wing party) donors-list meets Google maps

#14

Post by radiosnob »

mhd wrote: post #11
radiosnob wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

as a non-german living in germany, why?

We had some bad experiences with "Deutschland über Alles" a couple of years ago, so "proud to be a German" and things like that are frowned upon, as they evoke the wrong images. I leave the discussion about the merits of patriotism out of this, as it really doesn't matter that much here. This is more about advertising than content, and repeating the now unsung verses of the national anthem is generally considered a b…

i'm not sure if you're alluding to something in particular or trying to make a joke.

but saying that its frowned upon to be proud of your own country (regardless of country), is to me, not a nice thing to say. singling germany out forever because of past events is dis-ingenious.

i would say that anyone whose nose gets bent out of shape because a german says they are proud of their country probably needs to take a second look at germany, and then themselves. and if a reporter is doing this, then it is most likely just stirring the pot

Re: Leaked NPD(German right wing party) donors-list meets Google maps

#15

Post by wedesoft »

chalst wrote: post #8

This has been covered by the mainstream German media: 30.5.2011, Spiegel Online, Hacker kapern rechte Websites, http://www.spiegel.de/netzwelt/web/0,1518,765784,00.html 31.5.2011, sueddeutsche.de, Hacker kapern NPD-Webseiten, http://www.sueddeutsche.de/digital/attacke-auf-rechte-partei... The NPD response, quoted in the Spiegel article, is laughable: they talk about how their security was relatively good and that the…

Considering the number of NPD deputies who have lost their mandate because of fraud, embezzlement, theft, ... I would say that security is not exactly their primary concern.

Re: Leaked NPD(German right wing party) donors-list meets Google maps

#16

Post by cipherpunk »

radiosnob wrote: post #14
mhd wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We had some bad experiences with "Deutschland über Alles" a couple of years ago, so "proud to be a German" and things like that are frowned upon, as they evoke the wrong images. I leave the discussion about the merits of patriotism out of this, as it really doesn't matter that much here. This is more about advertising than content, and repeating the now unsung verses of the national anthem is generally considered a b…

i'm not sure if you're alluding to something in particular or trying to make a joke. but saying that its frowned upon to be proud of your own country (regardless of country), is to me, not a nice thing to say. singling germany out forever because of past events is dis-ingenious. i would say that anyone whose nose gets bent out of shape because a german says they are proud of their country probably needs to take a sec…

"The working class have no country". Nationalism is just a way to consolidate state power, and breeds strife amongst nations. It inevitably leads to a us-and-them scenario. The sooner it is stamped out, the better.

Re: Leaked NPD(German right wing party) donors-list meets Google maps

#17

Post by mhd »

radiosnob wrote: post #14
mhd wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We had some bad experiences with "Deutschland über Alles" a couple of years ago, so "proud to be a German" and things like that are frowned upon, as they evoke the wrong images. I leave the discussion about the merits of patriotism out of this, as it really doesn't matter that much here. This is more about advertising than content, and repeating the now unsung verses of the national anthem is generally considered a b…

i'm not sure if you're alluding to something in particular or trying to make a joke. but saying that its frowned upon to be proud of your own country (regardless of country), is to me, not a nice thing to say. singling germany out forever because of past events is dis-ingenious. i would say that anyone whose nose gets bent out of shape because a german says they are proud of their country probably needs to take a sec…

It's not just patriotism and being proud of your country. It's the specific phrases. "Deutschland über Alles" (as in the original text of the hacker) is pretty tied to a specific era and best left alone as a phrase. Actually, "I'm proud to be German" as a phrase is tied to right-wing propaganda, too.

The Wikipedia article on patriotism has a nice statistic, although it's a bit old[1]. A few countries were asked how proud they were of their country, from a scale of 1 to 4. Most of them are in the 3 range (with the US leading with 3.92), Germany had a 1.37.

Again, this isn't really about what you want to express, it's how you do it. And a phrase like "Deutschland über Alles" is basically somewhat between "The South will rise again" and "White Power".

Personally, I find team jersey mentality like that a bit narcissistic, but if it floats your boat... But if you're about to improve the image of something, you shouldn't use the terminology of those you're opposing. That just makes it look like a battle between two equally wrong splinter groups of the same cause.

[1]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriotism

Re: Leaked NPD(German right wing party) donors-list meets Google maps

#18

Post by FrojoS »

batterseapower wrote: post #12

Why is it that people support secret ballot, but not secret donation? Both are forms of political support, and making them public can in theory prevent people from expressing their true views. So why is the secrecy of one protected, but not the other?

My opinion:

In a democracy, ideally every one should have the same amount of voting power. Independent of social status, power and wealth.

Secret of vote, is there to prevent bribery and blackmail. Hence, even a poor and powerless person can vote, according to their heart.

In contrast, donations to politicians and parties, are an attempt to "buy" elections.

Re: Leaked NPD(German right wing party) donors-list meets Google maps

#19

Post by ciex »

radiosnob wrote: post #10
mhd wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I am a proud German, I love Germany above everything, and I do everything in my power to improve the image of Germany." First step: Don't ever talk like that.

as a non-german living in germany, why?

If you are proud of your country it means that you associate value with everything that is connected to the country. This value is intrinsic (for example everything manufactured in Germany has an intrinsic value because it is of German origin and you are proud of Germany).

The problem is that this line of thought automatically devalues everything not from your own country if it can be compared to something from your own country. Since everything from your country has an intrinsic value to you, everything not from your country lacks this value and is therefore less valuable to you. This would be OK if it was limited to manufactured products but sadly it includes people as well as whole cultures.

So being proud of your country makes you devalue everything from other countries before even considering its real value.

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