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New model could explain old cholesterol mystery

sciencenorway.no

31–40 of 148 posts

Re: New model could explain old cholesterol mystery

#31

The idea that animal products are unhealthy seems to be misguided. It seems more likely that the supposedly "heart healthy" seed oils are causing heart disease. The Carnivore Code has some very good insights (at least in my opinion) [1] And this talk on how seed oils are destroying our health is also pretty interesting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kGnfXXIKZM [1] https://www.amazon.com/Carnivore-Code-Unlocking-Re…

It's what the science says so far. It's amazing that since there are gaps in our knowledge people readily jump over to woo woo fad diets.

> It's what the science says so far.

No, it's what some interpret the science to mean. It's not like the Carnivore Code is just a nonsense fad diet. It's a book describing the science behind it. You may or may not agree with its conclusions, of course.

And I'm not even suggesting to start eating a carnivore diet. I don't. I just think it's worth reading for some valuable insights.

Additionally, I would argue that the science on seed oils points to them being bad for our health. If you watch that video, the conclusions are all based on research.

There's no such thing as "the science", as if there's only a single conclusion that can be derived from experiments. That's not how science works.

Re: New model could explain old cholesterol mystery

#32
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wasn't trying to nitpick your comment. Even excluding animal products it's still possible to eat a diet high in saturated fat.

No worries, I should have just said she "eats healthy".

Saying that someone "eats healthy" is so vague as to be meaningless.

Re: New model could explain old cholesterol mystery

#33
post #5

I am close with someone who has chronic high cholesterol, in addition to a 6-pack abs. She exercises 5x/week and eats .5kg of animal products/week at most, usually white meat. She just visited her heart Dr and was told that her cholesterol is too high and that she needs to cut out animal products entirely as a next step. I am thinking...is this really the modern answer to someone's high cholesterol if they consistent…

My grandmother has been diagnosed with high cholesterol since I was a toddler. She's 104 years old and survived COVID this summer.

In my family all the cooking/frying is done with clarified butter. Butter, cheese, definitely no margarine/crisco, plant oil only for salads. So far no cardiovascular problems.

Re: New model could explain old cholesterol mystery

#34
post #23

PROBLEM #1: High saturated fat diet correlated to high serum cholesterol ANSWER #1: Serum cholesterol is transferred back-and-forth between the blood and cell membranes to maintain a constant cell rigidity; normal behavior PROBLEM #2: High serum cholesterol correlated to cardiovascular disease ANSWER #2: Chronic inflammation associated with metabolic disorders upsets the various regulatory systems I find the second a…

> This can be measured non-intrusively by measuring the Ankle-Brachial Pressure Index

Huh. Is this something one’s GP could do or does it require specialized training? The article says it’s unpopular at general practitioner’s offices.

Re: New model could explain old cholesterol mystery

#36
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My grandmother has been diagnosed with high cholesterol since I was a toddler. She's 104 years old and survived COVID this summer.

In my family all the cooking/frying is done with clarified butter. Butter, cheese, definitely no margarine/crisco, plant oil only for salads. So far no cardiovascular problems.

The interesting side effect to me here is using butter one might keep the cooking temperatures a little bit lower. Butter burns at a lower temp than many plant oils.

Re: New model could explain old cholesterol mystery

#37
post #23

PROBLEM #1: High saturated fat diet correlated to high serum cholesterol ANSWER #1: Serum cholesterol is transferred back-and-forth between the blood and cell membranes to maintain a constant cell rigidity; normal behavior PROBLEM #2: High serum cholesterol correlated to cardiovascular disease ANSWER #2: Chronic inflammation associated with metabolic disorders upsets the various regulatory systems I find the second a…

I think it is more:

PROBLEM #2: high serum cholesterol is correlated to cardiovascular disease, but eating high saturated fat-diets is not.

ANSWER #2: It appears that studies that assess the effect of a particular diet depends a lot upon the health of the individual prior to the study start; thus, using a random population results in non-significant results.

Note that I agree with you otherwise. I would suspect that a diet high in saturated fats without any supplemental unsaturated fats would result in cell walls becoming so stiff that removal of cholesterol can no longer benefit the cell walls; if this happens in arteries, you get hardened arteries that can lead to heart disease.

Re: New model could explain old cholesterol mystery

#38
post #23

PROBLEM #1: High saturated fat diet correlated to high serum cholesterol ANSWER #1: Serum cholesterol is transferred back-and-forth between the blood and cell membranes to maintain a constant cell rigidity; normal behavior PROBLEM #2: High serum cholesterol correlated to cardiovascular disease ANSWER #2: Chronic inflammation associated with metabolic disorders upsets the various regulatory systems I find the second a…

Problem #1 is not actually observed though. We know from many, many studies that dietary cholesterol is not directly correlated with serum cholesterol. The article even alludes to the point that the body regulates cholesterol on its own regardless of diet.

Re: New model could explain old cholesterol mystery

#39
post #3

This is why I have three things I never trust the experts in. - How to be healthy - How to educate - How to raise kids It seems like every decade we find out everything we did last decade was bad and wrong but now we've finally for sure got it figured out, and this time we know we are right because we have fancier gadgets and more citations in our name. From Frued to the Food Pyramid it seems that the experts always…

> - How to be healthy - How to educate - How to raise kids

I think it's interesting that all of three of these hinge on the same problem: human variability. I strongly suspect that humans are much more variable internally than conventional science and journalism accounts for.

The scientific method uses statistics which is important for showing aggregate effects but can also obscure variability. And journalists have an incentive to offer simplified guidance that is as widely applicable as possible.

The end result of a lot of information like "Do X" when what it should really be is "If you are like Y do X, if you are like W do Z."

This is a pattern I think of as "the missing parameter" that I see just about everywhere people give advice once I started looking for it. Examples:

- "(Static/dynamic) types don't help programming." For what kinds of programs? Developed by whom? At what scale and timeframe?

- "You (should/should not) use a schemaless database." How big is your dataset? What is the relative fraction of reads/writes? What kind of data? How many users? How much money do you have? What are your failure modes?

- "People should move (to/out) of cities." Which cities? What is the city's transit like? Which people? What activities do they prefer? Do they have kids? What's their economic status? Age? How important is it to be near a hospital?

- "You should eat less salt." For people of what age? Activity level? Diet?

- "Teach by example not generalities." Teach what material? To whom? How important is their understanding? How long should they retain it?

- "Children should go outdoors on their own more." What age? What personality do they have? Where do they live?

Whenever I see people arguing about some generality, what is often happening is that each party has implicitly filled in those parameters with different values, so they are all correct but talking past each other. When I see this happening now, I try to take a step back and figure out what implicit parameters they are assuming and see if there's a higher-level parameterized stance that unifies their arguments.

Re: New model could explain old cholesterol mystery

#40
post #34
post #23

PROBLEM #1: High saturated fat diet correlated to high serum cholesterol ANSWER #1: Serum cholesterol is transferred back-and-forth between the blood and cell membranes to maintain a constant cell rigidity; normal behavior PROBLEM #2: High serum cholesterol correlated to cardiovascular disease ANSWER #2: Chronic inflammation associated with metabolic disorders upsets the various regulatory systems I find the second a…

> This can be measured non-intrusively by measuring the Ankle-Brachial Pressure Index Huh. Is this something one’s GP could do or does it require specialized training? The article says it’s unpopular at general practitioner’s offices.

Most GPs (or at least all GPs I’ve ever visited) don’t have ultrasound machines.

However I imagine they’d be able to perform a simplified version, just measuring the BP at the arm and the ankle and dividing.

Presumably using the ultrasound just allows you to get a more precise reading.

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