FTC Is Investigating Intuit over TurboTax Practices • Hacker News Board

Re: FTC Is Investigating Intuit over TurboTax Practices

#31

Post by syshum » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 5:22 PM UTC

save_ferris wrote: post #22

syshum wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I 100% agree, to bad all you will get in response to your comment is how it is evil companies that prevent the noble and universally good government from helping the people. Unfortunately very few people seem to understand that government, intrinsically, is inefficient and bad at everything it does. This can not be avoided or changed it is the natural state of a monopoly. They seem to be able to recognize that when a…

> Unfortunately very few people seem to understand that government, intrinsically, is inefficient and bad at everything it does. This is a laughably false statement. It's easy to find stories of government projects that came in ahead of schedule and under budget, but you have to look for them because those stories don't get nearly as much attention as the inverse. Take the Hoover Dam, for example. That was one of the…

What is laughable if the fact you picked a make work jobs program like the Hover Damn to highlight government efficiency...

The entire purpose of project was because the government needed to find something for thousands of unemployed men to do. It was literally the definition of "busy work"

Further the budget was massively reduced because they did not have to concern themselves with minor things like environmental impact, or worker safety...

I hope that is not your only shinning example of government as it is very much tarnished by the stain of blood

Re: FTC Is Investigating Intuit over TurboTax Practices

#32

Post by masklinn » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 5:25 PM UTC

guerby wrote: post #21

In France you can fill your tax form online since 1999 https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/T%C3%A9l%C3%A9d%C3%A9claration... In the past years banks and companies give tax related information to the tax authority so for lots of people the online tax form is already 100% filled and correct. For the past year tax filling I just had to add to the web form renting income, tax deducible donations, and that was it.

I'd assume most european countries have had that for at least a decade e.g. Estonia's e-tax started in 2002, Belgium's tax-on-web in 2003.

Re: FTC Is Investigating Intuit over TurboTax Practices

#33

Post by syshum » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 5:25 PM UTC

Octoth0rpe wrote: post #25

jaywalk wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ridiculous thing to say. I am a small government person, and I believe taxation is theft. However, I am a realist and so I recognize that taxes are part of our reality. I am 100% in favor of the IRS making it as easy as possible for people to do their taxes, because they already have 99% of the info needed.

> I believe taxation is theft > However, I am a realist Choose one.

The fact is that the government, like a thief, says to a man: Your money, or your life. And many, if not most, taxes are paid under the compulsion of that threat.

The government does not, indeed, waylay a man in a lonely place, spring upon him from the road side, and, holding a pistol to his head, proceed to rifle his pockets. But the robbery is none the less a robbery on that account; and it is far more dastardly and shameful.

--Lysander Spooner

Re: FTC Is Investigating Intuit over TurboTax Practices

#34

Post by mulmen » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 5:27 PM UTC

guerby wrote: post #21

In France you can fill your tax form online since 1999 https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/T%C3%A9l%C3%A9d%C3%A9claration... In the past years banks and companies give tax related information to the tax authority so for lots of people the online tax form is already 100% filled and correct. For the past year tax filling I just had to add to the web form renting income, tax deducible donations, and that was it.

How does France build these systems? Does the government itself have IT development resources or do they contract out to private industry?

Re: FTC Is Investigating Intuit over TurboTax Practices

#35

Post by masklinn » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 5:28 PM UTC

swiley wrote: post #29

gkfasdfasdf wrote: post #28

Obligatory mention of https://www.turbotaxsucksass.com/ , which takes you directly to real free file option of each major online tax prep site, bypassing all the misleading not-actually-free filing options that the sites loudly advertise.

I thought the official IRS form filler was discontinued? Does this just take you to another intuit competitor? EDIT: it just sends you to the free version of turbo tax and has links for the competitors heh

> I thought the official IRS form filler was discontinued?

IRS's own service was discontinued after an agreement with tax preparation companies that they would provide such a service (the IRS Free File Program) if your AGI is below 69k (nice).

Which they do, but try to hide as much as they can via negative SEO and various dark pattern, so that you unknowingly get directed towards "free" offers which quickly require you to pay.

There's plenty of information all over the net. And I thought I remembered LWT doing an episode on that recently, but apparently it was Patriot Act… in what I now learn was the last episode, that would certainly explain why it's been so long I've seen an episode pop up in my feed.

Re: FTC Is Investigating Intuit over TurboTax Practices

#36

Post by Macha » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 5:28 PM UTC

guerby wrote: post #21

In France you can fill your tax form online since 1999 https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/T%C3%A9l%C3%A9d%C3%A9claration... In the past years banks and companies give tax related information to the tax authority so for lots of people the online tax form is already 100% filled and correct. For the past year tax filling I just had to add to the web form renting income, tax deducible donations, and that was it.

Same idea here in Ireland.

Reasons you might need to interact with the income tax system here:

1. You have significant (>€5000) non-employment income.

2. You worked for less than 12 months and are claiming your tax refund.

3. You disagree with the government assessed tax reciept (which is based on what your employer fills in).

For 90% of people then, they don't need to interact with it. Their employer reports their income, deducts an appropriate amount of taxes, and sends it to the government. End of process.

Re: FTC Is Investigating Intuit over TurboTax Practices

#37

Post by dutchmartin » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 5:28 PM UTC

guerby wrote: post #21

In France you can fill your tax form online since 1999 https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/T%C3%A9l%C3%A9d%C3%A9claration... In the past years banks and companies give tax related information to the tax authority so for lots of people the online tax form is already 100% filled and correct. For the past year tax filling I just had to add to the web form renting income, tax deducible donations, and that was it.

Almost the same for the Netherlands, we could do that from 1996 [1].

[1] https://over-ons.belastingdienst.nl/themas/digitalisering-en...

Re: FTC Is Investigating Intuit over TurboTax Practices

#38

Post by Macha » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 5:29 PM UTC

mulmen wrote: post #34

guerby wrote: post #21

In France you can fill your tax form online since 1999 https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/T%C3%A9l%C3%A9d%C3%A9claration... In the past years banks and companies give tax related information to the tax authority so for lots of people the online tax form is already 100% filled and correct. For the past year tax filling I just had to add to the web form renting income, tax deducible donations, and that was it.

How does France build these systems? Does the government itself have IT development resources or do they contract out to private industry?

Can't speak for France, but in Ireland this system has been in place since it was done on paper. Most (all?) IT work for the government is contracted out to private companies.

Re: FTC Is Investigating Intuit over TurboTax Practices

#39

Post by Ericson2314 » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 5:36 PM UTC

jaywalk wrote: post #26

Octoth0rpe wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I believe taxation is theft > However, I am a realist Choose one.

I have no idea how you see those two things as mutually exclusive.

If taxation is theft, so are the vast majority of jobs.

Re: FTC Is Investigating Intuit over TurboTax Practices

#40

Post by vonmoltke » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 5:37 PM UTC

milofeynman wrote: post #20

briandear wrote: post #2

Not sure I understand the hate for TurboTax. Literally not a single person is forced to use it. I do use it and it's a very good product for the most part. Perhaps energy should be directed at the actual tax code complexity rather than software built to help navigate filing. Ted Cruz's tax plan would have practically eliminated the need for TurboTax-type software. https://taxfoundation.org/details-and-analysis-senato…

The hate comes from anyone who understands intuit lobbying against the interest of the US taxpayer. Instead of the US government acting like every other 1st world government and giving us a pre-calculated tax bill since they already know what we owe we're forced to spend hours tracking down documents and hoping we didn't mess up and get audited. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/14/opinion/filing-taxes-in-j...

> Instead of the US government acting like every other 1st world government and giving us a pre-calculated tax bill since they already know what we owe

They don't know what a given taxpayer owes. They can estimate based on various filings, but there is some stuff that is only reported by the taxpayer when filing. That said, it isn't an excuse to push all the work onto the taxpayer when almost all of what a typical taxpayer needs to fill out could be pre-populated.

> we're forced to spend hours tracking down documents and hoping we didn't mess up and get audited

That the IRS audits taxpayers is evidence that it doesn't ever conclusively know what some people were supposed to pay in a given year, let alone by 15APR of the following year.