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New York City is a mall

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Re: New York City is a mall

#31

Post by kortilla »

danceparty wrote: post #30
hacknat wrote: post #9

I have to say that I feel bad for New Yorkers. I live in the middle of the country, but I work for a company on the lower east-side. I’m often in Manhattan, so I think I have a feel for what it’s like there and there is such a poverty of what a global city could be there. I’ve seen quite a bit of the world and dense Spanish urban centers are much better than Manhattan. Barcelona has created super blocks, which are th…

Subjective and frankly insane to say. Over 8 million people live in NYC (over 2x the population of the next most populous city in the USA, Los Angeles). NYC is commonly known in western culture as a world capital of culture, finance, and world politics (recall the UN). The population of NYC has grown by over 223,615 since the previous census. I agree with you that other cities around the world (a very large area!) ma…

> NYC is commonly known in western culture as a world capital of culture, finance, and world politics

Commonly known in NYC maybe. That view is antiquated in the rest of the US.

> USA to be worthy of your sympathy based on their choice to live there is not constructive, nor rational.

Wow, so sensitive. The pity is not because of their choice. It’s for how the urban planning of NYC has been consistently squandered for 50+ years. You can simultaneously like a city and have pity for its fixable flaws (e.g. homelessness in San Francisco).

Re: New York City is a mall

#32

Post by codyb »

brenden2 wrote: post #4

FWIW I live in Manhattan and I actively avoid these places. They are mostly packed with tourists, I doubt many locals spend time there. I've never been to Hudson Yards intentionally (I've walked past it before) and I don't plan on going. There's lots of good stuff in NYC if you're not a tourist, and it's very far from being a mall.

I checked out the Vessel which was pretty neat, although I didn’t have a ticket to climb it.

I live fairly close to the Oculus and don’t mind it. Usually once you get past the crowds taking pictures near the entrances it’s not super crowded to walk around in.

Many of the stores are a bit more high end than I generally need but it’s nice to have an Apple store and I’ve picked up some decent clothes for a wedding in some of the clothing shops.

Plus I quite enjoy being down near World Trade these days. The memorial space is really quite pretty and tastefully done in my opinion. They did a great job putting in so many trees, and there’s an area that’s painted with a lot of very colorful art panels.

Plus there’s a really nice farmers market down there many days.

All in all I understand people who sort of avoid the more touristy areas but for me I don’t really seem to mind them so much.

I think that’s why I like it here so much actually, not all the touristy spots specifically, but the wonderful diversity of flavors to NYC.

There’s just so many ways to enjoy the wealth of culture we have here.

Re: New York City is a mall

#33

Post by Sukotto »

kenhwang wrote: post #12

Just look at Tokyo as an example of what a city organically grows into. Every major transport hub is filled with shopping and food. NYC is abit the same way. I like it. People generally don't like living right next to transportation hubs, so why not make those areas commercial space. Everyone likes having many options for dining, so that's the main draw. Dining naturally has waiting, so why not have shopping for wait…

>Just look at Tokyo ... Every major transport hub is filled with shopping and food.

They are designed that way.

New transit construction is often the result of a joint venture between a rail company and one or more shopping construction companies / real estate companies.

They work together to identify where they can profitably build a new station, with attached (or nearby) shopping + residences. Then work with financing companies to pay for the land acquisition, construction, and advertising.

Re: New York City is a mall

#34

Post by moogleii »

Swizec wrote: post #21
dajohnson89 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Brooklynite here, but I've lived all over the country. We don't need your pity. There might be better examples of what an urban center could be, and some aspects of NYC are definitely a shitshow. But in my not-so-humble opinion -- nowhere else in the states comes close.

> nowhere else in the states comes close SF comes close. After moving to SF from [small city/town] Europe a few years ago I spent a long time thinking about what it is that draws me to SF and why the only other city in USA that I'd even consider is NYC. The answer I came up with was population density combined with population size. You want a big dense population. That creates the economies of scale that make a city…

After living in the suburbs of California for quite some time, I would have agreed with you. SF seemed like a metropolis in comparison. But after living in NYC for close to a decade, SF now feels like a large suburb with an attached city center. Imo, density/infrastructure/urban-planning-wise, SF feels most similar to Brooklyn, where cars are still very dominant. Brooklyn alone has a density of 35,000/mi^2, where Manhattan alone is at 69,000.

Not knocking on your opinion, just adding my 2 cents. Brooklyn is large, fun, exciting, etc, all the things I’d describe SF as, but I don’t know if I’d call it a metropolis on its own (at least not based on my personal opinion), whereas I would easily describe NYC as so (either defined in its entirety or just Manhattan, which would probably bug the natives).

Re: New York City is a mall

#35

Post by jhatemyjob »

danceparty wrote: post #30
hacknat wrote: post #9

I have to say that I feel bad for New Yorkers. I live in the middle of the country, but I work for a company on the lower east-side. I’m often in Manhattan, so I think I have a feel for what it’s like there and there is such a poverty of what a global city could be there. I’ve seen quite a bit of the world and dense Spanish urban centers are much better than Manhattan. Barcelona has created super blocks, which are th…

Subjective and frankly insane to say. Over 8 million people live in NYC (over 2x the population of the next most populous city in the USA, Los Angeles). NYC is commonly known in western culture as a world capital of culture, finance, and world politics (recall the UN). The population of NYC has grown by over 223,615 since the previous census. I agree with you that other cities around the world (a very large area!) ma…

> (objectively)

Ok.

Re: New York City is a mall

#36

Post by jhatemyjob »

Swizec wrote: post #21
dajohnson89 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Brooklynite here, but I've lived all over the country. We don't need your pity. There might be better examples of what an urban center could be, and some aspects of NYC are definitely a shitshow. But in my not-so-humble opinion -- nowhere else in the states comes close.

> nowhere else in the states comes close SF comes close. After moving to SF from [small city/town] Europe a few years ago I spent a long time thinking about what it is that draws me to SF and why the only other city in USA that I'd even consider is NYC. The answer I came up with was population density combined with population size. You want a big dense population. That creates the economies of scale that make a city…

You could also just like... have a car.

Re: New York City is a mall

#37

Post by jhatemyjob »

cylinder wrote: post #18
hacknat wrote: post #9

I have to say that I feel bad for New Yorkers. I live in the middle of the country, but I work for a company on the lower east-side. I’m often in Manhattan, so I think I have a feel for what it’s like there and there is such a poverty of what a global city could be there. I’ve seen quite a bit of the world and dense Spanish urban centers are much better than Manhattan. Barcelona has created super blocks, which are th…

Lived in NYC (Manhattan and Brooklyn) five years, experienced highs and lows, started a business, closed one, took a traditional job and contract jobs, so I saw a lot. it's extremely overrated and overhyped. Lots of good, interesting people, but also lots of pretty awful ones (usually from somewhere else). Ultimately, the quality of life is poor and even London is far more livable than New York. Edit: the rapid downv…

Would you recommend someone live there for a year or two? Kinda tired of the bay area

Re: New York City is a mall

#39

Post by kenhwang »

Sukotto wrote: post #33
kenhwang wrote: post #12

Just look at Tokyo as an example of what a city organically grows into. Every major transport hub is filled with shopping and food. NYC is abit the same way. I like it. People generally don't like living right next to transportation hubs, so why not make those areas commercial space. Everyone likes having many options for dining, so that's the main draw. Dining naturally has waiting, so why not have shopping for wait…

>Just look at Tokyo ... Every major transport hub is filled with shopping and food. They are designed that way. New transit construction is often the result of a joint venture between a rail company and one or more shopping construction companies / real estate companies. They work together to identify where they can profitably build a new station, with attached (or nearby) shopping + residences. Then work with financ…

Point is, they wouldn't design them that way if it didn't work or if people didn't like them. Retail works best when it's convenient. Classic American malls were not.

Cities are designed too. Why don't we design them to be desirable places to be?

Re: New York City is a mall

#40

Post by fizwhiz »

Swizec wrote: post #21
dajohnson89 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Brooklynite here, but I've lived all over the country. We don't need your pity. There might be better examples of what an urban center could be, and some aspects of NYC are definitely a shitshow. But in my not-so-humble opinion -- nowhere else in the states comes close.

> nowhere else in the states comes close SF comes close. After moving to SF from [small city/town] Europe a few years ago I spent a long time thinking about what it is that draws me to SF and why the only other city in USA that I'd even consider is NYC. The answer I came up with was population density combined with population size. You want a big dense population. That creates the economies of scale that make a city…

> SF comes close

It most certainly does not. SF is a simulacrum of a proper city, but it's sadly the "best" of what's available in the bay area.

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