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New York City is a mall

ny.curbed.com

21–30 of 57 posts

Re: New York City is a mall

#21
post #9

I have to say that I feel bad for New Yorkers. I live in the middle of the country, but I work for a company on the lower east-side. I’m often in Manhattan, so I think I have a feel for what it’s like there and there is such a poverty of what a global city could be there. I’ve seen quite a bit of the world and dense Spanish urban centers are much better than Manhattan. Barcelona has created super blocks, which are th…

Brooklynite here, but I've lived all over the country. We don't need your pity. There might be better examples of what an urban center could be, and some aspects of NYC are definitely a shitshow. But in my not-so-humble opinion -- nowhere else in the states comes close.

> nowhere else in the states comes close

SF comes close.

After moving to SF from [small city/town] Europe a few years ago I spent a long time thinking about what it is that draws me to SF and why the only other city in USA that I'd even consider is NYC.

The answer I came up with was population density combined with population size. You want a big dense population. That creates the economies of scale that make a city feel like a city.

For example I've got 2 corner stores, 3 bars, and 2 restaurants on the same block as my apartment building. That just wouldn't make sense if there wasn't enough people around here to support those businesses.

If you look at US cities by population density on Wikipedia you'll notice the only places with more than 100,000 people and a density above 10,000 per square mile are San Francisco and New York with some surrounding cities in the greater megalopolis.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_b...

Next on the list is Boston. Then Chicago, Philadelphia, and Miami. But those have densities in the low 1X,000/mi^2 whereas SF is at 17,000/mi^2 and NYC a whopping 27,000/mi^2.

Without density a city feels like a sprawling suburb.

Re: New York City is a mall

#22
post #4

FWIW I live in Manhattan and I actively avoid these places. They are mostly packed with tourists, I doubt many locals spend time there. I've never been to Hudson Yards intentionally (I've walked past it before) and I don't plan on going. There's lots of good stuff in NYC if you're not a tourist, and it's very far from being a mall.

[deleted]

Re: New York City is a mall

#23
post #4

FWIW I live in Manhattan and I actively avoid these places. They are mostly packed with tourists, I doubt many locals spend time there. I've never been to Hudson Yards intentionally (I've walked past it before) and I don't plan on going. There's lots of good stuff in NYC if you're not a tourist, and it's very far from being a mall.

I checked out Hudson Yards as a tourist, and I would also agree it’s not a great example of a mall. Both the architecture and the shop selection seemed to be tuned more for Instagram-worthiness than for being a place you’d want to spend time, eat, or actually shop. The same goes for the mall in the Oculus.

Re: New York City is a mall

#24
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Brooklynite here, but I've lived all over the country. We don't need your pity. There might be better examples of what an urban center could be, and some aspects of NYC are definitely a shitshow. But in my not-so-humble opinion -- nowhere else in the states comes close.

> nowhere else in the states comes close SF comes close. After moving to SF from [small city/town] Europe a few years ago I spent a long time thinking about what it is that draws me to SF and why the only other city in USA that I'd even consider is NYC. The answer I came up with was population density combined with population size. You want a big dense population. That creates the economies of scale that make a city…

[deleted]

Re: New York City is a mall

#25
post #9

I have to say that I feel bad for New Yorkers. I live in the middle of the country, but I work for a company on the lower east-side. I’m often in Manhattan, so I think I have a feel for what it’s like there and there is such a poverty of what a global city could be there. I’ve seen quite a bit of the world and dense Spanish urban centers are much better than Manhattan. Barcelona has created super blocks, which are th…

Lived in NYC (Manhattan and Brooklyn) five years, experienced highs and lows, started a business, closed one, took a traditional job and contract jobs, so I saw a lot. it's extremely overrated and overhyped. Lots of good, interesting people, but also lots of pretty awful ones (usually from somewhere else). Ultimately, the quality of life is poor and even London is far more livable than New York. Edit: the rapid downv…

> pretty awful [people] (usually from somewhere else).

This is a strange assertion. What do you mean by this? Are you regurgitating the standard complaint about (white, midwest) transplants? From what I've seen over the years, most of the hyper-aggressive ding dongs are braying and bleating with thick, native NY/NJ accents.

Re: New York City is a mall

#26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Brooklynite here, but I've lived all over the country. We don't need your pity. There might be better examples of what an urban center could be, and some aspects of NYC are definitely a shitshow. But in my not-so-humble opinion -- nowhere else in the states comes close.

Whataboutism isn’t a defense. OP was pointing out that, as an outsider, it’s obvious NYC is lame for the class of city it’s trying to be. You don’t have to be a regular at a restaurant to point out its flaws.

What was the subject of his alleged whataboutism?

Re: New York City is a mall

#27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lived in NYC (Manhattan and Brooklyn) five years, experienced highs and lows, started a business, closed one, took a traditional job and contract jobs, so I saw a lot. it's extremely overrated and overhyped. Lots of good, interesting people, but also lots of pretty awful ones (usually from somewhere else). Ultimately, the quality of life is poor and even London is far more livable than New York. Edit: the rapid downv…

> pretty awful [people] (usually from somewhere else). This is a strange assertion. What do you mean by this? Are you regurgitating the standard complaint about (white, midwest) transplants? From what I've seen over the years, most of the hyper-aggressive ding dongs are braying and bleating with thick, native NY/NJ accents.

No, I'm not. I'm more referring to the money-chaser Type As who come from around the world to hustle there, and yes I'd count NJ as somewhere else, as well as Long Island.

Re: New York City is a mall

#28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whataboutism isn’t a defense. OP was pointing out that, as an outsider, it’s obvious NYC is lame for the class of city it’s trying to be. You don’t have to be a regular at a restaurant to point out its flaws.

What was the subject of his alleged whataboutism?

The rest of the US.

Re: New York City is a mall

#29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lived in NYC (Manhattan and Brooklyn) five years, experienced highs and lows, started a business, closed one, took a traditional job and contract jobs, so I saw a lot. it's extremely overrated and overhyped. Lots of good, interesting people, but also lots of pretty awful ones (usually from somewhere else). Ultimately, the quality of life is poor and even London is far more livable than New York. Edit: the rapid downv…

> pretty awful [people] (usually from somewhere else). This is a strange assertion. What do you mean by this? Are you regurgitating the standard complaint about (white, midwest) transplants? From what I've seen over the years, most of the hyper-aggressive ding dongs are braying and bleating with thick, native NY/NJ accents.

You reinforce an unconstructive comment with another?

Re: New York City is a mall

#30
post #9

I have to say that I feel bad for New Yorkers. I live in the middle of the country, but I work for a company on the lower east-side. I’m often in Manhattan, so I think I have a feel for what it’s like there and there is such a poverty of what a global city could be there. I’ve seen quite a bit of the world and dense Spanish urban centers are much better than Manhattan. Barcelona has created super blocks, which are th…

Subjective and frankly insane to say. Over 8 million people live in NYC (over 2x the population of the next most populous city in the USA, Los Angeles). NYC is commonly known in western culture as a world capital of culture, finance, and world politics (recall the UN). The population of NYC has grown by over 223,615 since the previous census. I agree with you that other cities around the world (a very large area!) may appeal to your personal sensibilities, but saying you 'feel bad for New Yorkers' is trolling. I Feel Bad for any backwoods country-dweller that thinks they have it better than the hundreds of thousands of people that made the choice to move to one of the (objectively) greatest cities in the world to improve their life. See how that feels? You just attempted to apply that to millions of people. Every densely populated has is faults (Barcelona particularly! Many, as in a substantial voting bloc, residents would prefer you to have never come as a tourist at all.) Pigeonholing the residents of the largest city in the USA to be worthy of your sympathy based on their choice to live there is not constructive, nor rational.
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