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U.S. CBP and Israeli Elbit to Persistently Surveil Native American Reservation

theintercept.com

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Re: U.S. CBP and Israeli Elbit to Persistently Surveil Native American Reservation

#31

Post by lostlogin »

bsaul wrote: post #29
Synaesthesia wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well considering they the decision by the UN was totally made by western colonial powers, with total disregard for Arab opinion, it’s not surprising it was going to lead to war. The Yishuv expected a war and used it as a platform to expand their territory and execute their plans.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Partition_Plan_... I'm not sure what you consider a western colonial power in this list, but yes indeed, arabs refused the rights for jews to have any kind of state at the time.

> arabs refused the rights for jews to have any kind of state at the time.

Did they refuse them rights to any kind of state, or refuse them rights to any kind of state on land that was at that time Arab land? It’s not hard to see why a country would be against giving over its own land.

Re: U.S. CBP and Israeli Elbit to Persistently Surveil Native American Reservation

#32

Post by mikeash »

writepub wrote: post #25
mikeash wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you think CBP monitoring protestors isn’t abuse if it’s happening within 100 miles of the border, then I think we share too little common ground for this conversation to ever be productive.

Indeed - contrarian viewpoints are to be avoided at all costs for productively mass converging on falsehoods.

There has to be some basic set of shared values or else it’s just shouting.

Re: U.S. CBP and Israeli Elbit to Persistently Surveil Native American Reservation

#33

Post by bsaul »

lostlogin wrote: post #31
bsaul wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Partition_Plan_... I'm not sure what you consider a western colonial power in this list, but yes indeed, arabs refused the rights for jews to have any kind of state at the time.

> arabs refused the rights for jews to have any kind of state at the time. Did they refuse them rights to any kind of state, or refuse them rights to any kind of state on land that was at that time Arab land? It’s not hard to see why a country would be against giving over its own land.

I'm not sure what makes you think this land belonged to an "arab country". It isn't more arab than turkish, or british, or jewish, or latin, or any other nation that has ruled it in the past. If you only look at the last 500 previous years, it belonged to the ottoman empire (not arab), then to the british empire, and now is split between one jewish state and three arab entities/countries (jordan, what's left of the PA and gaza)

Arab population never got along well with the idea of having jews (or anything non-muslim) rule any part of the region, but i don't think the reason has anything to do with sovereign country giving its own land...

Re: U.S. CBP and Israeli Elbit to Persistently Surveil Native American Reservation

#34

Post by tzs »

lostlogin wrote: post #31
bsaul wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Partition_Plan_... I'm not sure what you consider a western colonial power in this list, but yes indeed, arabs refused the rights for jews to have any kind of state at the time.

> arabs refused the rights for jews to have any kind of state at the time. Did they refuse them rights to any kind of state, or refuse them rights to any kind of state on land that was at that time Arab land? It’s not hard to see why a country would be against giving over its own land.

It was at the time British land. The British got it from the Turks as part of the peace agreements at the end of World War I. The Turks had it for a few hundred years before that.

It's changed hands a lot. I guess that's not surprising given the location. Anyone building an empire in much of Europe, Asia, Egypt, Persia, and the like at some point would be passing by Palestine on the way to some juicy target--might as well grab Palestine on the way.

Re: U.S. CBP and Israeli Elbit to Persistently Surveil Native American Reservation

#35

Post by [deleted] »

bsaul wrote: post #33
lostlogin wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> arabs refused the rights for jews to have any kind of state at the time. Did they refuse them rights to any kind of state, or refuse them rights to any kind of state on land that was at that time Arab land? It’s not hard to see why a country would be against giving over its own land.

I'm not sure what makes you think this land belonged to an "arab country". It isn't more arab than turkish, or british, or jewish, or latin, or any other nation that has ruled it in the past. If you only look at the last 500 previous years, it belonged to the ottoman empire (not arab), then to the british empire, and now is split between one jewish state and three arab entities/countries (jordan, what's left of the P…

[deleted]

Re: U.S. CBP and Israeli Elbit to Persistently Surveil Native American Reservation

#36

Post by Synaesthesia »

bsaul wrote: post #29
Synaesthesia wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well considering they the decision by the UN was totally made by western colonial powers, with total disregard for Arab opinion, it’s not surprising it was going to lead to war. The Yishuv expected a war and used it as a platform to expand their territory and execute their plans.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Partition_Plan_... I'm not sure what you consider a western colonial power in this list, but yes indeed, arabs refused the rights for jews to have any kind of state at the time.

The USA, France, South Africa, Canada, New Zealand, Australia ...

Re: U.S. CBP and Israeli Elbit to Persistently Surveil Native American Reservation

#37

Post by Synaesthesia »

bsaul wrote: post #33
lostlogin wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> arabs refused the rights for jews to have any kind of state at the time. Did they refuse them rights to any kind of state, or refuse them rights to any kind of state on land that was at that time Arab land? It’s not hard to see why a country would be against giving over its own land.

I'm not sure what makes you think this land belonged to an "arab country". It isn't more arab than turkish, or british, or jewish, or latin, or any other nation that has ruled it in the past. If you only look at the last 500 previous years, it belonged to the ottoman empire (not arab), then to the british empire, and now is split between one jewish state and three arab entities/countries (jordan, what's left of the P…

The Arab population had tolerated Jews for centuries, where they even thrived I some countries, the persecutions, expulsions, forced conversions etc were far worse in Europe throughout history.

There well Palestinian Jews who had lived there for centuries, well integrated, the spoke Arabic, and there were hardly any issues prior to Zionism.

Re: U.S. CBP and Israeli Elbit to Persistently Surveil Native American Reservation

#39

Post by tzakrajs »

LegitShady wrote: post #38
_lflx wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sean Connery would like to persuade you otherwise.

even he prefers "per-shay"

Be careful, mods threatened to ban me because of this and other "unsubstantive" comments. It's considered abuse to have fun on HN if you aren't serving up hot new takes or facts. It's a really great community with moderators that care a lot.

Re: U.S. CBP and Israeli Elbit to Persistently Surveil Native American Reservation

#40

Post by bsaul »

Synaesthesia wrote: post #37
bsaul wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure what makes you think this land belonged to an "arab country". It isn't more arab than turkish, or british, or jewish, or latin, or any other nation that has ruled it in the past. If you only look at the last 500 previous years, it belonged to the ottoman empire (not arab), then to the british empire, and now is split between one jewish state and three arab entities/countries (jordan, what's left of the P…

The Arab population had tolerated Jews for centuries, where they even thrived I some countries, the persecutions, expulsions, forced conversions etc were far worse in Europe throughout history. There well Palestinian Jews who had lived there for centuries, well integrated, the spoke Arabic, and there were hardly any issues prior to Zionism.

Although your point of view should be pondered by what the status of "dhimmi" is in muslim-ruled countries (not exactly the same as citizen of equal rights), i don't think you contradict my point. Jews were "tolerated", but it was really out of question to have them be in charge.
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