U.S. CBP and Israeli Elbit to Persistently Surveil Native American Reservation

Post by bsaul » Sun, Aug 25, 2019, 6:01 PM UTC

Synaesthesia wrote: post #16

bsaul wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

unfortunately, i don't know of any single border of any state or nation that was peacefully acquired or constituted. I don't think "modernity" has changed anything, no matter where you make it starts. If you want an example, then look at Israel, which is one of the first state that wasn't created unilaterally through force or as a result of war, but (at least initially) through a UN resolution from an assembly of sta…

Israel was totally created from war, the 1948 war, and the 1967 war.

Post by writepub » Sun, Aug 25, 2019, 6:13 PM UTC

mikeash wrote: post #20

writepub wrote: post #18

The article, ahem hit piece, basically reports on surveillance commonplace along the border. But, by picking a border reservation, the exact same surveillance is falsely setting CBP up as a bogeyman apparently racist towards natives - all of which is left unsubstantiated by the article. The origin of surveillance tech is of no relevance, other than to malign Israel. What would change if the tech were from, say Canada…

There are several other important points that your summary misses: * A history of harassment by CBP towards inhabitants of the reservation which is driving people away. * CBP is abusing this surveillance technology to monitor protestors. * CBP lends its surveillance technology to other law enforcement agencies in a way that seems to have insufficient oversight and large potential for abuse.

Post by writepub » Sun, Aug 25, 2019, 6:42 PM UTC

mikeash wrote: post #24

writepub wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Glad to see Israel has nothing to do with this. Wherever CBP presence increases, questionings increase, regardless of race. To frame this tension as harassment targeting natives is disingenuous. CBP often gets accused of racism, especially towards Hispanics, though some 70% of CBP officers deployed along the border are Hispanic themselves. If the protests are happening within CBP jurisdiction (100 miles from the bord…

If you think CBP monitoring protestors isn’t abuse if it’s happening within 100 miles of the border, then I think we share too little common ground for this conversation to ever be productive.

Post by bsaul » Sun, Aug 25, 2019, 6:47 PM UTC

LegitShady wrote: post #14

bsaul wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

unfortunately, i don't know of any single border of any state or nation that was peacefully acquired or constituted. I don't think "modernity" has changed anything, no matter where you make it starts. If you want an example, then look at Israel, which is one of the first state that wasn't created unilaterally through force or as a result of war, but (at least initially) through a UN resolution from an assembly of sta…

Israel, while 'ratified' by the UN, created itself from force by defeating the surrounding opponents who tried to stop it from existing, continued to do so throughout its history with multiple wars against coalitions of enemies, and continues to develop its military deterrents today. A handful of UN dopes sitting on the Golan Heights who have to run to Israel for safety when actual trouble from the region affects the…

Post by bsaul » Sun, Aug 25, 2019, 6:59 PM UTC

Synaesthesia wrote: post #22

bsaul wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the 1948 war happens after the 1947 UN declaration recognizing the partition of the region into two states : one for the arab and the other for the jews (israel). The declaration was accepted by the UN. The fact that this declaration was accepted by a majority of states including the most powerful ones, and yet lead to an immediate never-ending war is the point i was trying to make. To my knowledge, borders always ge…

Well considering they the decision by the UN was totally made by western colonial powers, with total disregard for Arab opinion, it’s not surprising it was going to lead to war. The Yishuv expected a war and used it as a platform to expand their territory and execute their plans.