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Unity Engine ToS change makes cloud-based SpatialOS games illegal

arstechnica.com

31–40 of 277 posts

Re: Unity Engine ToS change makes cloud-based SpatialOS games illegal

#31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It basically signals to me they don't give a fuck about you; it's Unity-first, and you can deal with it. Take it or leave it. After being burnt by the Source Engine, I'll never use Unity again after having read this.

What happened with Source?

Valve pretty much abandoned developing everything but Steam. You'll still see a few token projects come out of Valve, but it seems like they've basically turned into Steam, Inc.

Re: Unity Engine ToS change makes cloud-based SpatialOS games illegal

#32
post #22

I feel like people are missing the mark here, complaining about commercial game engines. SpatialOS was basically re-distributing Unity under a SaaS model. Unity is in the right here. Edit: Have heard some pretty good points about the ambiguous wording of the ToS (such as theoretically making the distribution of a Unity-made game through a storefront illegal). It will be interesting to see if this ToS change sticks.

Your right. This is about the hosting company running Unity software on the cloud -- something that clearly needs to be licensed by Unity.

From Ars https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2019/01/unity-engine-tos-chan...

> The newly updated clause 2.4 of the Terms of Service now specifically excludes "managed service[s] running on cloud infrastructure" which "install or execute the Unity Runtime on the cloud or a remote server."

Re: Unity Engine ToS change makes cloud-based SpatialOS games illegal

#33
post #28
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think using Open Sourced Engines is the proper response to this. Why reinvent the wheel unless you have your own use case.

Open source engine suck big time, and I'm not even talking about the tooling part which is an even bigger problem, video game engine are usually not something you can do well on your own without large resources.

Godot and Phaser are not "Suck Big Time" engines. It depends what you are making, but again there is no reason why we must be stuck with closed source engines.

Re: Unity Engine ToS change makes cloud-based SpatialOS games illegal

#34
Improbable's response: https://improbable.io/company/news/2019/01/10/unity-blocks-s...

"Worryingly, this change occurred during an open commercial negotiation with the company to find a way to do more together."

So they had an ongoing negotiation and Unity just went ahead and made the change? Yikes.

Also kudos to Improbable for setting up an emergency fund for partners affected by this.

Re: Unity Engine ToS change makes cloud-based SpatialOS games illegal

#35
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What happened with Source?

Valve pretty much abandoned developing everything but Steam. You'll still see a few token projects come out of Valve, but it seems like they've basically turned into Steam, Inc.

It's not really that surprising. That can do 1/10th the work as before and make 100 times the revenue. Until something seriously disrupts the online PC game market they can sit back and ignore game development.

Re: Unity Engine ToS change makes cloud-based SpatialOS games illegal

#36
post #33
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Open source engine suck big time, and I'm not even talking about the tooling part which is an even bigger problem, video game engine are usually not something you can do well on your own without large resources.

Godot and Phaser are not "Suck Big Time" engines. It depends what you are making, but again there is no reason why we must be stuck with closed source engines.

Not to offend anyone, but those are toys engine. Godot is probably the most advanced and it's nowhere in term of what proprietary engines can do. I mean look at their showcase: https://godotengine.org/showcase

The game engine world is really different from what you usually read on HN like libraries, frameworks, DBs, languages ect ... it's a closed world where everyone built something custom.

Re: Unity Engine ToS change makes cloud-based SpatialOS games illegal

#37
> You may not directly or indirectly distribute the Unity Software, including the runtime portion of the Unity Software (the “Unity Runtime”), or your Project Content (if it incorporates the Unity Runtime) by means of streaming or broadcasting so that any portion of the Unity Software is primarily executed on or simulated by the cloud or a remote server and transmitted over the Internet or other network to end user devices without a separate license or authorization from Unity.

These terms are incredibly vague. Makes it sound like you cannot run your own dedicated server for multiplayer without being in breach of the new terms. If Unity forces their new multiplayer hosted service on their users, I (and I foresee many others) will immediately start transitioning to Unreal.

Ref: https://unity3d.com/legal/terms-of-service/software (sec 2.4)

Re: Unity Engine ToS change makes cloud-based SpatialOS games illegal

#38
Seems like the best path forward for a current cloud Unity provider would be to move from managed Unity to one you can deploy yourself. Make it so it’s trivial to run your own and move the licensed use to the game developer instead of the cloud service.

EDIT: after reading the actual terms it seems like even game developers can’t do this without violating terms. Unity really wants this to be something they wholly own. Yikes

Re: Unity Engine ToS change makes cloud-based SpatialOS games illegal

#39
post #32
post #22

I feel like people are missing the mark here, complaining about commercial game engines. SpatialOS was basically re-distributing Unity under a SaaS model. Unity is in the right here. Edit: Have heard some pretty good points about the ambiguous wording of the ToS (such as theoretically making the distribution of a Unity-made game through a storefront illegal). It will be interesting to see if this ToS change sticks.

Your right. This is about the hosting company running Unity software on the cloud -- something that clearly needs to be licensed by Unity. From Ars https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2019/01/unity-engine-tos-chan... > The newly updated clause 2.4 of the Terms of Service now specifically excludes "managed service[s] running on cloud infrastructure" which "install or execute the Unity Runtime on the cloud or a remote serve…

Re-distrubuting and hosting on the cloud are 2 completely different things, here Spatial isn't streaming the visuals of their instance or anything alike but making sure there is only one state of the game, a pretty useful tool for multiplayer games (avoid cheating, etc)

Re: Unity Engine ToS change makes cloud-based SpatialOS games illegal

#40
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, Spatial was not doing that, they are an integration with Unity. Developers still needed to install Unity with a license, get the SpatialOS framework running as their net code, and then write a game.

I'm not so sure. Maybe I am misunderstanding but the terms prohibit the "use [of] a managed service running on cloud infrastructure...to install or execute the Unity Runtime on the cloud or a remote server". Which leads me to believe they are installing or running the Unity Runtime on their servers? If not I'd love a better explanation :)

If I write a Java app and run it on AWS, I'm in the clear.

If I write a licensed Unity app and run it on SpatialOS, well, that's now no longer allowed.

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