Police had woman’s Facebook deactivated during standoff • Hacker News Board

Re: Police had woman’s Facebook deactivated during standoff

#31

Post by williamscales » Wed, Aug 03, 2016, 2:33 AM UTC

pgrote wrote: post #14

NeutronBoy wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed - why would social media be treated any differently than disconnecting phone lines or mobile phones during standoffs and negotiations?

Perhaps because it is against the law for local authorities to shut down telecommunications? https://www.publicknowledge.org/news-blog/blogs/why-shutting... "More than seventy years ago, Congress made a choice to take that option away from local authorities. It conferred jurisdiction on the FCC and the state Public Utility Commissions to provide oversight, and gave everyone a federally protected right to access the p…

I would put forward that it is because live-streaming on social media is not the same as using the phone line. When Facebook chose to shut down her account (which is within its rights) then she still had access to the phone line.

The federally protected right to access the phone network is unaffected. There is no federal requirement that would require Facebook to only shut down an account after receiving a court order.

Re: Police had woman’s Facebook deactivated during standoff

#32

Post by vermontdevil » Wed, Aug 03, 2016, 2:37 AM UTC

throwaway201607 wrote: post #16

HelloImDumb wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This was a hostage situation. Was the 5 year old boy, not a hostage to his crazed, gun-wielding mother in this standoff? I love Monday morning quarterbacks.

>I love Monday morning quarterbacks. honest question, what does this mean?

Same meaning as hindsight is 20/20.

Re: Police had woman’s Facebook deactivated during standoff

#33

Post by dghughes » Wed, Aug 03, 2016, 2:41 AM UTC

throwaway201607 wrote: post #16

HelloImDumb wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This was a hostage situation. Was the 5 year old boy, not a hostage to his crazed, gun-wielding mother in this standoff? I love Monday morning quarterbacks.

>I love Monday morning quarterbacks. honest question, what does this mean?

It's a polite way of calling someone a know-it-all.

Re: Police had woman’s Facebook deactivated during standoff

#34

Post by nstj » Wed, Aug 03, 2016, 2:44 AM UTC

throwaway201607 wrote: post #16

HelloImDumb wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This was a hostage situation. Was the 5 year old boy, not a hostage to his crazed, gun-wielding mother in this standoff? I love Monday morning quarterbacks.

>I love Monday morning quarterbacks. honest question, what does this mean?

> Monday morning quarterback: A person who analyzes the mistakes they made they day after they've made them. Derived from complaining over quarterbacks on monday morning after the sunday game. [0]

[0]: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=monday%20morn...

Re: Police had woman’s Facebook deactivated during standoff

#35

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Aug 03, 2016, 2:46 AM UTC

HelloImDumb wrote: post #26

panic wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The police could have left her alone and come back later. They were in her house, and she was only threatening to harm the officers, not her child.

Again, I love that Monday morning quarterbacking. Crazed gunman? Come back later. Crazed gunman with a kid? Come back later. Crazed fugitive gunman with a warrant out, with a kid, threatening to kill police? Let them settle down, come back later. There was outrage in my town over a standoff with a guy (with kids) who was having attempted to be served on him by the cops for the dozenth time after a year on the lam, fo…

[deleted]

Re: Police had woman’s Facebook deactivated during standoff

#36

Post by donatj » Wed, Aug 03, 2016, 2:51 AM UTC

HelloImDumb wrote: post #26

panic wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The police could have left her alone and come back later. They were in her house, and she was only threatening to harm the officers, not her child.

Again, I love that Monday morning quarterbacking. Crazed gunman? Come back later. Crazed gunman with a kid? Come back later. Crazed fugitive gunman with a warrant out, with a kid, threatening to kill police? Let them settle down, come back later. There was outrage in my town over a standoff with a guy (with kids) who was having attempted to be served on him by the cops for the dozenth time after a year on the lam, fo…

Answer me this. Honestly. Is people getting served really more important than people's lives?

Re: Police had woman’s Facebook deactivated during standoff

#37

Post by erdevs » Wed, Aug 03, 2016, 2:51 AM UTC

HelloImDumb wrote: post #12

erdevs wrote: post #7

Tragic and unfortunate, all around. I wonder what FB's policy on this will be going forward. In many ways, these livestreams are a public good and provide transparency and additional accountability in these situations. If people elect to stream them, it seems wrong to shut it down. On the other hand, perhaps there is a public good in not showing an ongoing live police operation? I think I'd lean toward not agreeing t…

This was a hostage situation. Was the 5 year old boy, not a hostage to his crazed, gun-wielding mother in this standoff? I love Monday morning quarterbacks.

Are you saying that I'm Monday morning quarterbacking? I was trying to ask questions and share possible approaches, without saying anything definitively prescriptive.

A Monday Morning Quarterback doesn't leave a lot of question or uncertainty. That's the kind of the point. They take potshots post facto and frame what "should've" been done as obvious or what happened as ridiculous/blatantly stupid. I don't see how my comment can reasonably be read that way.

I'd ask that you either explain your rude remark in rational terms, or apologize if you don't think you have a great rationale.

Re: Police had woman’s Facebook deactivated during standoff

#38

Post by trvrsalom » Wed, Aug 03, 2016, 2:52 AM UTC

_audakel wrote: post #28

Kenji wrote: post #11

I wonder if there was a way to resolve this standoff without her death. I.e. letting her shoot all the shotgun shells she has, or just waiting until she gets tired and slips up, gets hungry, etc. Yeah, it requires a lot of patience but hey, you can save a human life. I don't think she would have harmed her kid so waiting in cover seems like a relatively safe thing to do?

if police are about to shoot, and have good cause to, then it would seem reasonable that they be allowed to use sleep gas or tranquilizer, similar to what doctors use during operation. Seems better than killing them. Downside could be lawsuites against the police for "damages" that the sleep gas caused.

As nice as it would be to have a reliable nonlethal alternative to firearms, there simply are no nonlethal weapons capable of stopping someone who is presenting an immediate threat. Tranquilizers and anesthesia are administered by an anesthesiologist, a doctor trained to determine a dosage based on a person's body mass. Too much of a dose, or even administering it too quickly can cause serious complications, or even death. Even under the controlled environment of an operating room 1/20 patients die under full anesthesia a year.

Sadly, the most reliable method of stopping a person presenting a threat is with a firearm.

Re: Police had woman’s Facebook deactivated during standoff

#39

Post by TheSpiceIsLife » Wed, Aug 03, 2016, 2:53 AM UTC

HelloImDumb wrote: post #26

panic wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The police could have left her alone and come back later. They were in her house, and she was only threatening to harm the officers, not her child.

Again, I love that Monday morning quarterbacking. Crazed gunman? Come back later. Crazed gunman with a kid? Come back later. Crazed fugitive gunman with a warrant out, with a kid, threatening to kill police? Let them settle down, come back later. There was outrage in my town over a standoff with a guy (with kids) who was having attempted to be served on him by the cops for the dozenth time after a year on the lam, fo…

If we've got data let's go with the data, if all we've got is opinions let's go with mine.

Where's the data? We'll probably never know because the police never (rarely?) back down.

And we (society in general) probably aren't prepared to carry out the experiment, but it would be an interesting experiment.

You're right though, the Monday Morning Quaterbacks would criticise LEO regardless. Probably.

Re: Police had woman’s Facebook deactivated during standoff

#40

Post by erdevs » Wed, Aug 03, 2016, 2:54 AM UTC

HelloImDumb wrote: post #12

erdevs wrote: post #7

Tragic and unfortunate, all around. I wonder what FB's policy on this will be going forward. In many ways, these livestreams are a public good and provide transparency and additional accountability in these situations. If people elect to stream them, it seems wrong to shut it down. On the other hand, perhaps there is a public good in not showing an ongoing live police operation? I think I'd lean toward not agreeing t…

This was a hostage situation. Was the 5 year old boy, not a hostage to his crazed, gun-wielding mother in this standoff? I love Monday morning quarterbacks.

I don't know. Is a child under their mother's care considered a hostage in standoff circumstances? I have no idea. And note that my question was on whether it being a hostage situation should affect the policy or not... so I'm open to the possibility that it was, obviously.

Also, you didn't at all address the question about whether it makes sense to stop streamings in the event of a police encounter or not. If not, when shouldn't it be allowed? I think, at least in many states, you do have the right to record police encounters, especially if it's on your own private property or in a public place. But maybe I'm mistaken?

Perhaps you can read more carefully, think more carefully, behave more civilly, and try again.