Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Visiting Chelsea Manning in prison

zyan.scripts.mit.edu

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 179 posts

Re: Visiting Chelsea Manning in prison

#31

Post by pc86 »

woodman wrote: post #10
mynameishere wrote: post #6

Whatever sympathies you want to arouse for Pvt Manning for political purposes, however wordily and clumsily expressed, try to keep in mind that throughout all of history, in all contexts, regardless of rank, Manning would have been summarily hanged as a spy and/or traitor rather than merely imprisoned. Manning got off nice and easy. That said, it was a total failure of the system to allow someone so mentally unstable…

> ...at a time when the army had trouble getting anyone literate... In 2007? Where are you getting that? For the USMC 01-09 were glory years when it came to enlistment quality, so much so that they tightened requirements - and practically banned recruits and reenlistees with visible tattoos... while doubling in size. I'd be surprised to learn that the Army didn't enjoy the same trend.

I enlisted in the USMC in 2007, there were a lot of recruits but the quality was low and they had trouble getting the higher AFQTs joining them as opposed to the Navy or Air Force.

Re: Visiting Chelsea Manning in prison

#32

Post by M1ntos123 »

douche wrote: post #29
vertex-four wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gender's not quite irrelevant - I'm reasonably certain Chelsea is happy that she gets the medication she needs (as she has written), and that in general, people accept her transition at this point. Humane treatment is a thing that's important, and for trans people, humane treatment partially involves treating them as the gender they are. Personally, I have no skin in this game, but I have a suspicion that the people…

Fact of the matter is that Manning was born with a Y chromosome and a penis. Mental illness aside, he's still a man, albeit one who has chosen to mutilate himself. I don't really care what he decides to do with himself - although I smart a little bit that taxpayer money funded his gender vision quest.

In your world of pure cold logic Hitler did the world a service by murdering innocent victim for having 'inferior' genes than someone else.

Chelsea is a biological man but she considers herself a woman; this is called 'sex identity'.

Note: Hitler's world of logic is probably not very logical at all when you really analyse everything, just as this dudes argument with Chelsea having a mental illness and stuff.

Re: Visiting Chelsea Manning in prison

#33

Post by xenophonf »

igravious wrote: post #5
thr32989 wrote: post #2

> I will be Chelsea’s first visitor since her sister in November. > I bring up her recent appeal to reduce her sentence from 35 years to 10 years, and she seems worried that it didn’t receive enough coverage in the press. She hopes that the world hasn’t forgotten about her. I am afraid world has already forgotten. Google search for "site:news.ycombinator.com Chelsea Manning" for past month gives three results includi…

CHELSEA E. MANNING 89289 1300 NORTH WAREHOUSE ROAD FORT LEAVENWORTH, KANSAS 66027-2304 --- Found that by following a link. https://www.chelseamanning.org/learn-more/write-to-chelsea-m... Make sure to follow the on-page instructions or your correspondence will be rejected/returned. The conditions are quite strict. They check for obscenities which is hilarious -- assuming movies like Full Metal Jacket are an accurate d…

I know "Thank you for your service" is gauche, but she's probably someone who needs to hear that---along with a heartfelt apology from the citizenry who failed her.

Re: Visiting Chelsea Manning in prison

#34

Post by coldtea »

avar wrote: post #19
coldtea wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, like not wanting a gay black rights activist among black activism ranks in the fifties? I'd say the combined whistle blowing story make for an even better cause. Except if they only want to project domesticity (we're tame, accept us), not change.

> So, like not wanting a gay black rights > activist among black activism ranks in the fifties? This would be more like making a point of making black felons the poster children for black rights in the fifties. It's a pointless distraction to advancing the cause. > I'd say the combined whistle blowing story > make for an even better cause. What makes you think people who agree with the transgender cause all agree tha…

>What makes you think people who agree with the transgender cause all agree that Chelsea Manning doesn't deserve to rot in prison?

No, what I think something else:

(1) That what he/she did was right.

(2) That being for what's right should not be compartmentalized: I wouldn't like black activists don't promoting gay causes, or gays not promoting black rights either.

(3) And that the people who I'd like to be on my side, should agree to both.

>There's plenty of socially progressive people who think someone who's active military leaking the sort of thing Manning leaked should be in prison at best.

If they think that I don't see how they are "socially progressive" at the same time. They sound like "the law is the law" and "my country, right or wrong" types...

Re: Visiting Chelsea Manning in prison

#35

Post by rebeccaskinner »

thr32989 wrote: post #2

> I will be Chelsea’s first visitor since her sister in November. > I bring up her recent appeal to reduce her sentence from 35 years to 10 years, and she seems worried that it didn’t receive enough coverage in the press. She hopes that the world hasn’t forgotten about her. I am afraid world has already forgotten. Google search for "site:news.ycombinator.com Chelsea Manning" for past month gives three results includi…

The correct pronoun is 'her', not 'him/her', and a lot of trans activists and allies do spend an inordinate amount (which wouldn't be so necessary if people made even a small effort to get them correct) of time correcting people on pronouns, but there is a lot of work that transgender rights activists are doing for people in prison in general, and I do know that they've been involved with some of the work to help ensure that she is able to access appropriate treatment while she's in prison.

It seems like it would be very difficult for any civil rights advocacy groups to be able to do much for her though, since she's not a civilian or in a civilian prison.

Re: Visiting Chelsea Manning in prison

#36

Post by rebeccaskinner »

coldtea wrote: post #34
avar wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So, like not wanting a gay black rights > activist among black activism ranks in the fifties? This would be more like making a point of making black felons the poster children for black rights in the fifties. It's a pointless distraction to advancing the cause. > I'd say the combined whistle blowing story > make for an even better cause. What makes you think people who agree with the transgender cause all agree tha…

> What makes you think people who agree with the transgender cause all agree that Chelsea Manning doesn't deserve to rot in prison? No, what I think something else: (1) That what he/she did was right. (2) That being for what's right should not be compartmentalized: I wouldn't like black activists don't promoting gay causes, or gays not promoting black rights either. (3) And that the people who I'd like to be on my si…

I think it's more complicated than that. I think her sentence, like most in the US, is overly punitive and unlikely to do anything other than ruin her life without any greater benefit to society, but I also hesitate to say what she did was clearly right or that she shouldn't face any consequences for it.

I haven't read any of the documents that she leaked, but there is a certain danger in ignoring vigilantism even in cases where it is the right thing to do, because certainly we don't have the context to know whether that information could have been dangerous to be released, and perhaps she didn't either. It's one thing for journalists to report on leaked information, but another to give a free pass to someone who violates the terms of their access to classified information.

Re: Visiting Chelsea Manning in prison

#37

Post by vacri »

seletz wrote: post #22
street wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why?

I guess the point developer2 tried to make is that the parent poster's language is very non-personal. This is a common thing -- by not seeing the victim as a person/human it's way easier to rationalize whatever ideology etc. you might have. Sorry, not a native speaker -- can't put it better :p

I disagree. I think when you're talking about someone you don't personally know that's in the public eye, you should use their surname if you're trying to make a clear point. I noticed it when I saw my own nation's male politicians always mentioned in the media by their surname, and the female politicians referred to by first name if the media outlet didn't like them. It was a way of robbing them of respect.

As a tech parallel, Gates and Jobs aren't generally referred to in articles by their first name, even when their identity has been established.

Just refer to everyone in the same way and you level the playing field, I find. If you have a personal connection, sure, bend the rule. But using a first name without having a personal connection usually robs the public figure of a bit of power.

Re: Visiting Chelsea Manning in prison

#38

Post by JonFish85 »

Synaesthesia wrote: post #4
thr32989 wrote: post #2

> I will be Chelsea’s first visitor since her sister in November. > I bring up her recent appeal to reduce her sentence from 35 years to 10 years, and she seems worried that it didn’t receive enough coverage in the press. She hopes that the world hasn’t forgotten about her. I am afraid world has already forgotten. Google search for "site:news.ycombinator.com Chelsea Manning" for past month gives three results includi…

Haven't forgotten. After reading this I'd like to write Chelsea. I'm also inspired to do more anti-prison and anti-solitary activism. This looks like a very touching book on solitary confinement - (Hell is a Very Small Place) http://www.amazon.com/Hell-Very-Small-Place-Confinement/dp/1...

Just a quick note that the solitary can also be a way to prevent a certain prisoner (like Manning) from being torn to pieces by the general prison population. Considering that Manning is in a military prison and is very unpopular amongst the military folks, and transgender to boot, it wouldn't surprise me if solitary is in Manning's best interests.

Re: Visiting Chelsea Manning in prison

#39

Post by rwallace »

rebeccaskinner wrote: post #36
coldtea wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What makes you think people who agree with the transgender cause all agree that Chelsea Manning doesn't deserve to rot in prison? No, what I think something else: (1) That what he/she did was right. (2) That being for what's right should not be compartmentalized: I wouldn't like black activists don't promoting gay causes, or gays not promoting black rights either. (3) And that the people who I'd like to be on my si…

I think it's more complicated than that. I think her sentence, like most in the US, is overly punitive and unlikely to do anything other than ruin her life without any greater benefit to society, but I also hesitate to say what she did was clearly right or that she shouldn't face any consequences for it. I haven't read any of the documents that she leaked, but there is a certain danger in ignoring vigilantism even in…

> I haven't read any of the documents that she leaked, but there is a certain danger in ignoring vigilantism even in cases where it is the right thing to do

But surely there is a pattern here that carries an even greater danger?

Pattern: an institution (in this case the US military, but it can be any government department, corporation, basically anything that is much more powerful than an individual) does something wrong and keeps it a secret. Whistleblower divulges the secret. Institution calls this treachery, tries to destroy whistleblower's life, and being much more powerful, will probably succeed unless society defends whistleblower.

Who gets to decide whether the information really needed to be kept secret? If we say the divulging thereof was dangerous vigilantism for which there should be consequences, regardless of its content, then we grant the institution a licence to make that decision unilaterally. This amounts to a free pass for institutional corruption – which, let us remember, is something that can ruin the world.

Mind you, I'm not saying whistleblower should get to make that decision unilaterally either. I'm saying I can think of no better option than deciding the case on its merits: look at the content of the divulged information and decide whether it was legitimately divulged (e.g. evidence of the institution committing a crime) or illegitimately (e.g. selling secrets to the enemy).

Re: Visiting Chelsea Manning in prison

#40

Post by bcrypt »

igravious wrote: post #5
thr32989 wrote: post #2

> I will be Chelsea’s first visitor since her sister in November. > I bring up her recent appeal to reduce her sentence from 35 years to 10 years, and she seems worried that it didn’t receive enough coverage in the press. She hopes that the world hasn’t forgotten about her. I am afraid world has already forgotten. Google search for "site:news.ycombinator.com Chelsea Manning" for past month gives three results includi…

CHELSEA E. MANNING 89289 1300 NORTH WAREHOUSE ROAD FORT LEAVENWORTH, KANSAS 66027-2304 --- Found that by following a link. https://www.chelseamanning.org/learn-more/write-to-chelsea-m... Make sure to follow the on-page instructions or your correspondence will be rejected/returned. The conditions are quite strict. They check for obscenities which is hilarious -- assuming movies like Full Metal Jacket are an accurate d…

FWIW, Chelsea reads every single letter she receives unless it's illegible. Mail is much appreciated.

-yan (author of blog post)

Post reply on HN