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Visiting Chelsea Manning in prison

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Re: Visiting Chelsea Manning in prison

#11

Post by thr32989 »

PhasmaFelis wrote: post #8
thr32989 wrote: post #2

> I will be Chelsea’s first visitor since her sister in November. > I bring up her recent appeal to reduce her sentence from 35 years to 10 years, and she seems worried that it didn’t receive enough coverage in the press. She hopes that the world hasn’t forgotten about her. I am afraid world has already forgotten. Google search for "site:news.ycombinator.com Chelsea Manning" for past month gives three results includi…

> And transgender rights activists are more busy with right gender pronouns then with him/her. I like how you felt the need to take an anti-trans dig at the woman you're claiming to care about. That was classy.

I am not taking dig on Manning, but activists. Gender is irrelevant, what matters is 10 versus 35 years.

And you proved my point.

Re: Visiting Chelsea Manning in prison

#12

Post by yarou »

jacalata wrote: post #9
mynameishere wrote: post #6

Whatever sympathies you want to arouse for Pvt Manning for political purposes, however wordily and clumsily expressed, try to keep in mind that throughout all of history, in all contexts, regardless of rank, Manning would have been summarily hanged as a spy and/or traitor rather than merely imprisoned. Manning got off nice and easy. That said, it was a total failure of the system to allow someone so mentally unstable…

Most of history is completely irrelevant to how people should be treated today. Through most of history all of us would be illiterate and internetless and not be having this conversation.

The one thing that remains consistent in the world, throughout history and today, is power.

We may have gotten more subtle about it, but there are clearly individuals who have more power than others. Toss in massive income inequality globally and you have the system we have today. It is an unjust system rotten to its core, and it needs to be dismantled, but the way forward is unclear. I'm not sure if a thousand people like Edward Snowden, Chelsea Manning, or Aaron Swartz can make a difference at this point.

Viewed through the lens of power, it makes perfect sense that those who try to oppose the current prevailing status quo are silenced, either through intimidation or outright violence.

Re: Visiting Chelsea Manning in prison

#13

Post by vertex-four »

thr32989 wrote: post #11
PhasmaFelis wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And transgender rights activists are more busy with right gender pronouns then with him/her. I like how you felt the need to take an anti-trans dig at the woman you're claiming to care about. That was classy.

I am not taking dig on Manning, but activists. Gender is irrelevant, what matters is 10 versus 35 years. And you proved my point.

Gender's not quite irrelevant - I'm reasonably certain Chelsea is happy that she gets the medication she needs (as she has written), and that in general, people accept her transition at this point. Humane treatment is a thing that's important, and for trans people, humane treatment partially involves treating them as the gender they are.

Personally, I have no skin in this game, but I have a suspicion that the people who fought Wikipedia, newspapers, TV stations and blogs to identify her correctly have absolutely no experience getting someone out of military prison.

Re: Visiting Chelsea Manning in prison

#14

Post by developer2 »

mynameishere wrote: post #6

Whatever sympathies you want to arouse for Pvt Manning for political purposes, however wordily and clumsily expressed, try to keep in mind that throughout all of history, in all contexts, regardless of rank, Manning would have been summarily hanged as a spy and/or traitor rather than merely imprisoned. Manning got off nice and easy. That said, it was a total failure of the system to allow someone so mentally unstable…

The lack of a first name or a single pronoun in your comment has more meaning than anything you actually wrote.

Re: Visiting Chelsea Manning in prison

#16

Post by MichaelApproved »

thr32989 wrote: post #2

> I will be Chelsea’s first visitor since her sister in November. > I bring up her recent appeal to reduce her sentence from 35 years to 10 years, and she seems worried that it didn’t receive enough coverage in the press. She hopes that the world hasn’t forgotten about her. I am afraid world has already forgotten. Google search for "site:news.ycombinator.com Chelsea Manning" for past month gives three results includi…

> And transgender rights activists are more busy with right gender pronouns then with him/her.

I can understand not putting Chelsea on the front lines of the transgender rights battle. You need "clean" media stories to make a point. Chelsea's transgender story is easily sidetracked by the whistle blowing story.

Re: Visiting Chelsea Manning in prison

#17

Post by coldtea »

MichaelApproved wrote: post #16
thr32989 wrote: post #2

> I will be Chelsea’s first visitor since her sister in November. > I bring up her recent appeal to reduce her sentence from 35 years to 10 years, and she seems worried that it didn’t receive enough coverage in the press. She hopes that the world hasn’t forgotten about her. I am afraid world has already forgotten. Google search for "site:news.ycombinator.com Chelsea Manning" for past month gives three results includi…

> And transgender rights activists are more busy with right gender pronouns then with him/her. I can understand not putting Chelsea on the front lines of the transgender rights battle. You need "clean" media stories to make a point. Chelsea's transgender story is easily sidetracked by the whistle blowing story.

So, like not wanting a gay black rights activist among black activism ranks in the fifties?

I'd say the combined whistle blowing story make for an even better cause.

Except if they only want to project domesticity (we're tame, accept us), not change.

Re: Visiting Chelsea Manning in prison

#18

Post by coldtea »

mynameishere wrote: post #6

Whatever sympathies you want to arouse for Pvt Manning for political purposes, however wordily and clumsily expressed, try to keep in mind that throughout all of history, in all contexts, regardless of rank, Manning would have been summarily hanged as a spy and/or traitor rather than merely imprisoned. Manning got off nice and easy. That said, it was a total failure of the system to allow someone so mentally unstable…

Most of history there were slaves too.

Following a similar reasoning, blacks being beaten up by the police "got off easy" too. It would have been a lynching in the past.

Re: Visiting Chelsea Manning in prison

#19

Post by avar »

coldtea wrote: post #17
MichaelApproved wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And transgender rights activists are more busy with right gender pronouns then with him/her. I can understand not putting Chelsea on the front lines of the transgender rights battle. You need "clean" media stories to make a point. Chelsea's transgender story is easily sidetracked by the whistle blowing story.

So, like not wanting a gay black rights activist among black activism ranks in the fifties? I'd say the combined whistle blowing story make for an even better cause. Except if they only want to project domesticity (we're tame, accept us), not change.

   > So, like not wanting a gay black rights
   > activist among black activism ranks in the fifties?
This would be more like making a point of making black felons the poster children for black rights in the fifties. It's a pointless distraction to advancing the cause.

    > I'd say the combined whistle blowing story
    > make for an even better cause.
What makes you think people who agree with the transgender cause all agree that Chelsea Manning doesn't deserve to rot in prison?

There's plenty of socially progressive people who think someone who's active military leaking the sort of thing Manning leaked should be in prison at best.

Re: Visiting Chelsea Manning in prison

#20

Post by street »

woodman wrote: post #10
mynameishere wrote: post #6

Whatever sympathies you want to arouse for Pvt Manning for political purposes, however wordily and clumsily expressed, try to keep in mind that throughout all of history, in all contexts, regardless of rank, Manning would have been summarily hanged as a spy and/or traitor rather than merely imprisoned. Manning got off nice and easy. That said, it was a total failure of the system to allow someone so mentally unstable…

> ...at a time when the army had trouble getting anyone literate... In 2007? Where are you getting that? For the USMC 01-09 were glory years when it came to enlistment quality, so much so that they tightened requirements - and practically banned recruits and reenlistees with visible tattoos... while doubling in size. I'd be surprised to learn that the Army didn't enjoy the same trend.

It's in the article he linked, sourced from military people quoted.
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