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German government to use Trojan spyware to monitor citizens

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Re: German government to use Trojan spyware to monitor citizens

#31

Do we know who wrote this version? The last one was from FinFisher IIRC.

It's developed by the Federal Criminal Police Office [0] (german BKA) They also bought another program from FinFisher as a backup that needs to be altered to fit the regulations and stuff. [0] only in German sorry: http://www.spiegel.de/netzwelt/netzpolitik/bundestrojaner-in...

Re: German government to use Trojan spyware to monitor citizens

#32
post #4

Relevant: > According to a 2008 decision by the German Constitutional Court, remote access to a citizen's computer is permissible only if there is life-threatening danger or suspicion of criminal activity against the state.

Whenever I read "crimes against the state" I get scared about the intentions of those in a position to determine what falls into this category

Re: German government to use Trojan spyware to monitor citizens

#33
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not true at all. The German Government is asking Facebook to delete comments which could be categorized as hate speech ("Volksverhetzung" in German). These comments are not "negative of her policies", they are calling on people to kill, gas or otherwise attack refugees, politicans or journalists. They are simply asking Facebook to comply with German law. Some comments comparable to those in question are curat…

When a state defines 'hate speech' laws they're really defining 'thought criminal' laws. Merkle and co. are trying to manipulate public opinion through the destruction of contrarian thought from the public realm.

Hate speech laws and thought crimes are on a totally different level. In Germany you are completely free to use the most blatant hate speech as much as you like as long as you don't do so in public.

Those laws are also not created by "Merkel and co." but decades old and introduced by the allies after the second world-war.

Re: German government to use Trojan spyware to monitor citizens

#34
post #28
post #15

I doubt they have capable programmers working for them. A few years ago the Chaos Computer Club discovered the 'predecessor' version of this State-Trojan ("Bundestrojaner"). This version was a perfect example what happens when you _want_ to have such a software but your programmers _suck_ at even most basic things (like establishing a working traffic-encryption). Here's the video (in German): https://youtu.be/zAV-hTp…

> I doubt they have any professional Linux programmers working for them. Working for the State also means earning only a fraction of what you can earn in the free market. Fortunately for them there is enough of commercial companies already that sell high-quality spyware to any government that able to pay for it.

Those companies also lack professional programmers. Actually, such companies sell for extremely expensive software programmed by students or consultants. The CCC disassembled the trojan and found out that they've used simple string manipulations to split Win32-APIs. For example OpenFile was split into "Open" and "File" etc.

Re: German government to use Trojan spyware to monitor citizens

#35
post #28
post #15

I doubt they have capable programmers working for them. A few years ago the Chaos Computer Club discovered the 'predecessor' version of this State-Trojan ("Bundestrojaner"). This version was a perfect example what happens when you _want_ to have such a software but your programmers _suck_ at even most basic things (like establishing a working traffic-encryption). Here's the video (in German): https://youtu.be/zAV-hTp…

> I doubt they have any professional Linux programmers working for them. Working for the State also means earning only a fraction of what you can earn in the free market. Fortunately for them there is enough of commercial companies already that sell high-quality spyware to any government that able to pay for it.

The software was reportedly developed in-house with only a backup purchased from FinFisher.

Re: German government to use Trojan spyware to monitor citizens

#36
post #15

I doubt they have capable programmers working for them. A few years ago the Chaos Computer Club discovered the 'predecessor' version of this State-Trojan ("Bundestrojaner"). This version was a perfect example what happens when you _want_ to have such a software but your programmers _suck_ at even most basic things (like establishing a working traffic-encryption). Here's the video (in German): https://youtu.be/zAV-hTp…

There are many companies willing to produce this type of software. As such the ability of the developers employed by the German government isn't an impediment to them doing something like this.

Re: German government to use Trojan spyware to monitor citizens

#37
post #19
post #4

Relevant: > According to a 2008 decision by the German Constitutional Court, remote access to a citizen's computer is permissible only if there is life-threatening danger or suspicion of criminal activity against the state.

That's their usual shtick. The same was used to legitimize blanket license plate scanning (now used for speeding tickets) and data retention laws (mainly used for drug trafficking). "Life-threatening danger" my ass.

> The same was used to legitimize blanket license plate scanning

Was that ever illegal? The license plates are publicly displayed and visible, and you could already put people on the field watching and manually noting the license plates down, or even put cameras and look at the footage later. The only thing that changes is the economics of making it automated, no?

Re: German government to use Trojan spyware to monitor citizens

#38
post #31

Do we know who wrote this version? The last one was from FinFisher IIRC.

It's developed by the Federal Criminal Police Office [0] (german BKA) They also bought another program from FinFisher as a backup that needs to be altered to fit the regulations and stuff. [0] only in German sorry: http://www.spiegel.de/netzwelt/netzpolitik/bundestrojaner-in...

I don't know what "Steigerung der passgenauen Einsatzfähigkeit" means (I speak german; I just don't know what it means), but it sounds like they still need the exploits from FinFisher.

Re: German government to use Trojan spyware to monitor citizens

#39

Merkel has already told facebook and twitter to delete comments and ban accounts negative of her 'policies'.

This is not because of "her policies".. it's because of German law. USA cannot dictate laws in Europe!

Doing hate speech against ethnic groups or sympathize with Hitler in public is no problem for Facebook it seems (German: Volksverhetzung). Here in Germany it is and was against the law!

At the same time USA and facebook is getting crazy and deletes posts immediately if you see naked female body parts! This is not against any law here in Germany.

So what is more dangerous for the public?

Re: German government to use Trojan spyware to monitor citizens

#40
post #15

I doubt they have capable programmers working for them. A few years ago the Chaos Computer Club discovered the 'predecessor' version of this State-Trojan ("Bundestrojaner"). This version was a perfect example what happens when you _want_ to have such a software but your programmers _suck_ at even most basic things (like establishing a working traffic-encryption). Here's the video (in German): https://youtu.be/zAV-hTp…

I guess you are not involved in politics? There is a lot of evidence that we should be very afraid of the state if you look at Verfassungsschutz activities. They are monitoring a lot of people who oppose policy backed by the state and there is a precedent in which “opposition members” were banned from state official jobs (teachers, ...) just a few years ago. Opposition member can mean for example being involved in anti nuclear-power protests.

Edit: People are also targeted for being critical of the Verfassungsschutz, so me writing this as well as you replying positively is a likely reason to be monitored, take care!

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