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France bids to reverse tech brain drain

bbc.co.uk

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Re: France bids to reverse tech brain drain

#31

Post by realusername »

onli wrote: post #6

Maybe France really changed a lot. But be not mistaken: It is still the most bureaucratic country on earth. Anecdote: I'm doing a PhD in France. Each year, one has to do a re-inscription. In Germany, that means sending money to the university. In France, that means sending in – let me count, I have them on my desk – 17 documents, and to pay as well of course (preferred way: with a check. Like it is 50 years ago). The…

You have the right answer sadly... It's just impossible to grasp the stupid amount of paperwork you have to fill for everything. As an example I needed more paperwork for my train rail-card than my passport (this is not a joke, it was really the case). In the UK, I just give a 10 pound note and I have my oyster card, no questions asked. My brother has a small business, it's just impossible to understand what the administration wants and they take ages to answer to stupid things we should not even have to fill, I really hope that one day, they will destroy the current bureaucracy and the country could finally have the place it deserves internationally. /rant

Re: France bids to reverse tech brain drain

#32

Post by scrollaway »

liotier wrote: post #26
fdej wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My impression living in France for the last year is very similar to yours. It's the mecca of paperwork (but doing taxes was relatively easy). And if you're required to supply some documentation from another country, you're likely to be required to get it translated to French by an official translator (which not only takes time but can be quite expensive). In contrast, I've never had a problem handing in German docume…

> The catch-22s are the best. Renting an apartment requires that you have a French bank account, and getting a French bank account requires that you already have somewhere to live in France... Not specific to France - I had the same experience as a French in Berlin (though it was twenty years ago - it might have changed).

And same in the UK. Ultimately, it can be worked around if you find the right people in the right mood, but it's insanely annoying.

Sweden was the worst on that aspect. Most owners require that you have a company signing the lease on your behalf (supposedly to guarantee the rent, yet they generally refuse advance payments on the rent).

Re: France bids to reverse tech brain drain

#33

Post by ThisIsMac »

you_eeeeeediot wrote: post #15

The problem is work ethic. I've been to France on business on 2-week stints about a dozen times, and I can tell you from my experience they do not want to work hard -- at anything. 6hr workdays, and at LEAST 1hr for lunch and worst of all they look at you like you are the crazy one for wanting to get more done each day.

Young french here, yes its true mostly for workman and for functionary but there are a lot a people who work a lot (in startup and small buisness), the main problem is that people dont want to change their advantages cause of financial crisis and big worker union doesnt want to discuss about this.

Re: France bids to reverse tech brain drain

#34

Post by yodsanklai »

Many people move abroad because the world is a big place and it's a lot of fun to work and live in a remote country. For instance, I worked a few years in the UK, in the US, and I would gladly go to Asia if I had the opportunity. However I couldn't care less about tax, money or bureaucracy (although I"m attached to my short commute time and long vacations).

Besides, I noticed that many (most?) French students from the top engineering schools go to work in the financial industry (abroad but also in France). I often wonder if this should be qualified as brain drain too.

Re: France bids to reverse tech brain drain

#35

Post by bryanlarsen »

david_p wrote: post #23
you_eeeeeediot wrote: post #15

The problem is work ethic. I've been to France on business on 2-week stints about a dozen times, and I can tell you from my experience they do not want to work hard -- at anything. 6hr workdays, and at LEAST 1hr for lunch and worst of all they look at you like you are the crazy one for wanting to get more done each day.

I guess it depends on where you work, like all countries. I have the exacts same experience as you working at a NYC insurance company (9 to 5 then go home). I also know at lot of companies here (in France) where people work their asses off everyday.

My current startup has a 9-5 culture, and we get a lot more done than any other startup I've worked for. No ping-pong, no long lunch breaks, no watercooler discussions, much less surfing on company time. I get more done in 8 hours than I used to get done in 12, and I get an extra 4 hours with my family.

Re: France bids to reverse tech brain drain

#36

Post by [deleted] »

onli wrote: post #6

Maybe France really changed a lot. But be not mistaken: It is still the most bureaucratic country on earth. Anecdote: I'm doing a PhD in France. Each year, one has to do a re-inscription. In Germany, that means sending money to the university. In France, that means sending in – let me count, I have them on my desk – 17 documents, and to pay as well of course (preferred way: with a check. Like it is 50 years ago). The…

[deleted]

Re: France bids to reverse tech brain drain

#37

Post by thachmai »

you_eeeeeediot wrote: post #15

The problem is work ethic. I've been to France on business on 2-week stints about a dozen times, and I can tell you from my experience they do not want to work hard -- at anything. 6hr workdays, and at LEAST 1hr for lunch and worst of all they look at you like you are the crazy one for wanting to get more done each day.

I've been living here for 7 years, worked for 3 different companies. I suppose I have a bit more anecdotes than your dozen of times.

There are places are people don't seem to do anything. But it's hardly a France-only occurrence. There are only plenty of companies where you are expected to work hard and deliver results; again, hardly France-only.

I love it when some casual observations from a visitor become trusted source of generalisation for a whole country.

Re: France bids to reverse tech brain drain

#38

Post by raverbashing »

onli wrote: post #21
yaps8 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair cheques are still popular in France and regularly used by administration, landlords and individuals.

Exactly. And virements (bank transfer) are really strange, at least with my bank (wait 24 hours to send money, I never saw that before). For me, that fits well into the image of a country that is not at all modern. But: That at least changed. They are still popular like you said, but by now you can get by without them (I for example have none), many stores do not accept them anymore. That is new.

What to say about the US (and Canada) where cheap transfers between bank accounts don't exist (at least from individual to individual)

Yes, where it exists it's rarely instantaneous across banks

Re: France bids to reverse tech brain drain

#39

Post by dingaling »

you_eeeeeediot wrote: post #15

The problem is work ethic. I've been to France on business on 2-week stints about a dozen times, and I can tell you from my experience they do not want to work hard -- at anything. 6hr workdays, and at LEAST 1hr for lunch and worst of all they look at you like you are the crazy one for wanting to get more done each day.

On an individual scale, statistics show that French private-sector workers are more productive than Germans and far ahead of the British.

Perhaps six hours is all they need to accomplish the task?

Re: France bids to reverse tech brain drain

#40

Post by omegaham »

ZeroGravitas wrote: post #4

They could adopt a consistent EU response to economic migrants, and simply not let them leave.

How would you stop them? I'm imagining all sorts of possibilities, and all of the effective ones require totalitarianism. You'll need a large surveillance network to watch the "at-risk" folks, secret police to infiltrate / interrogate / kill the smuggling networks that will arise, internal passports to track movement, and a nice political structure that will be able to maintain this without pesky things like folks trying to vote for "freedom" and other nonsense like that. Maybe some reeducation camps to correct the misguided ones who try to escape.
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