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France bids to reverse tech brain drain

bbc.co.uk

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Re: France bids to reverse tech brain drain

#21

Post by onli »

yaps8 wrote: post #13
onli wrote: post #6

Maybe France really changed a lot. But be not mistaken: It is still the most bureaucratic country on earth. Anecdote: I'm doing a PhD in France. Each year, one has to do a re-inscription. In Germany, that means sending money to the university. In France, that means sending in – let me count, I have them on my desk – 17 documents, and to pay as well of course (preferred way: with a check. Like it is 50 years ago). The…

To be fair cheques are still popular in France and regularly used by administration, landlords and individuals.

Exactly. And virements (bank transfer) are really strange, at least with my bank (wait 24 hours to send money, I never saw that before). For me, that fits well into the image of a country that is not at all modern.

But: That at least changed. They are still popular like you said, but by now you can get by without them (I for example have none), many stores do not accept them anymore. That is new.

Re: France bids to reverse tech brain drain

#22

Post by rorykoehler »

negrit wrote: post #20
yaps8 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair cheques are still popular in France and regularly used by administration, landlords and individuals.

To be fair cheques are also popular in the US. Until recently I had to pay my rent with Cheque. I live in an apartment complex in San Francisco.

My German bank doesn't even offer cheque books anymore.

Re: France bids to reverse tech brain drain

#23

Post by david_p »

you_eeeeeediot wrote: post #15

The problem is work ethic. I've been to France on business on 2-week stints about a dozen times, and I can tell you from my experience they do not want to work hard -- at anything. 6hr workdays, and at LEAST 1hr for lunch and worst of all they look at you like you are the crazy one for wanting to get more done each day.

I guess it depends on where you work, like all countries.

I have the exacts same experience as you working at a NYC insurance company (9 to 5 then go home).

I also know at lot of companies here (in France) where people work their asses off everyday.

Re: France bids to reverse tech brain drain

#24

Post by fche »

david_p wrote: post #11
seren wrote: post #2

I don't have hard data, but only a feeling that it should be easier to bootstrap in France than in US. Assuming you have worked previously, you can get unemployment benefits, around 60% of your previous salary for a year, and are covered by universal healthcare. So even if you need to have open heart surgery, you won't bankrupt your family for the next 7 generations. Actually someone (very brilliant) in my team is le…

Our startup was created in France 2,5 years ago. Here is our experience: Some of us started working on the project while getting unemployment benefits (huge boost). We get (very) affordable office spaces from the city and various incubators (we are located in Paris). We are able to live on first customers + 0% loans from the state + hundreds of thousands of euros in various grants for innovation ( http://www.bpifranc…

That degree of risk-eliminating subsidy should indeed light a fire under entrepreneurship (while the gravy train can keep moving). Do you suppose the benefits are commesurate with the costs? IOW, are there enough new companies thusly incubated that become self-supporting or better?

Re: France bids to reverse tech brain drain

#25

Post by onli »

fdej wrote: post #16
onli wrote: post #6

Maybe France really changed a lot. But be not mistaken: It is still the most bureaucratic country on earth. Anecdote: I'm doing a PhD in France. Each year, one has to do a re-inscription. In Germany, that means sending money to the university. In France, that means sending in – let me count, I have them on my desk – 17 documents, and to pay as well of course (preferred way: with a check. Like it is 50 years ago). The…

My impression living in France for the last year is very similar to yours. It's the mecca of paperwork (but doing taxes was relatively easy). And if you're required to supply some documentation from another country, you're likely to be required to get it translated to French by an official translator (which not only takes time but can be quite expensive). In contrast, I've never had a problem handing in German docume…

> Renting an apartment requires that you have a French bank account, and getting a French bank account requires that you already have somewhere to live in France...

Had the same :) But it is not really true. You can get a french bank account without living in France, got mine while living in Germany. But of course not all people working for a bank know or respect that. We got checked by my consellier very carefully before she said oui to opening the account.

Nice is the other one: To get an appartment you normally have to have an insurance, but to get that you need an appartment. Works with the landlord accepting to get the assurance attestation one week later, but is goodwill. Of course, a couple from marokko I know did not get the key from the man responsible in such a situation, while getting the appartment because it was university housing. They stood on the street after arriving here… That was pure racism, but shows that many thing here need goodwill to work despite the system.

Re: France bids to reverse tech brain drain

#26

Post by liotier »

fdej wrote: post #16
onli wrote: post #6

Maybe France really changed a lot. But be not mistaken: It is still the most bureaucratic country on earth. Anecdote: I'm doing a PhD in France. Each year, one has to do a re-inscription. In Germany, that means sending money to the university. In France, that means sending in – let me count, I have them on my desk – 17 documents, and to pay as well of course (preferred way: with a check. Like it is 50 years ago). The…

My impression living in France for the last year is very similar to yours. It's the mecca of paperwork (but doing taxes was relatively easy). And if you're required to supply some documentation from another country, you're likely to be required to get it translated to French by an official translator (which not only takes time but can be quite expensive). In contrast, I've never had a problem handing in German docume…

> The catch-22s are the best. Renting an apartment requires that you have a French bank account, and getting a French bank account requires that you already have somewhere to live in France...

Not specific to France - I had the same experience as a French in Berlin (though it was twenty years ago - it might have changed).

Re: France bids to reverse tech brain drain

#28

Post by thachmai »

rorykoehler wrote: post #22
negrit wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair cheques are also popular in the US. Until recently I had to pay my rent with Cheque. I live in an apartment complex in San Francisco.

My German bank doesn't even offer cheque books anymore.

Cash is King is Germany.

It's rather awkward if you come from a country with heavy card use. It's just weird to carry a few hundred euros in cash in your pocket these days.

Re: France bids to reverse tech brain drain

#29

Post by you_eeeeeediot »

david_p wrote: post #23
you_eeeeeediot wrote: post #15

The problem is work ethic. I've been to France on business on 2-week stints about a dozen times, and I can tell you from my experience they do not want to work hard -- at anything. 6hr workdays, and at LEAST 1hr for lunch and worst of all they look at you like you are the crazy one for wanting to get more done each day.

I guess it depends on where you work, like all countries. I have the exacts same experience as you working at a NYC insurance company (9 to 5 then go home). I also know at lot of companies here (in France) where people work their asses off everyday.

Fair point, my HQ is in NYC I can attest to the 9 to 5 as well. I think it has more to do with transit scheduling than anything. Then again Paris is extremely expensive to live in the Metro area as well so that may have something to do with my experience as well.

Re: France bids to reverse tech brain drain

#30

Post by onli »

liotier wrote: post #26
fdej wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My impression living in France for the last year is very similar to yours. It's the mecca of paperwork (but doing taxes was relatively easy). And if you're required to supply some documentation from another country, you're likely to be required to get it translated to French by an official translator (which not only takes time but can be quite expensive). In contrast, I've never had a problem handing in German docume…

> The catch-22s are the best. Renting an apartment requires that you have a French bank account, and getting a French bank account requires that you already have somewhere to live in France... Not specific to France - I had the same experience as a French in Berlin (though it was twenty years ago - it might have changed).

Changed. Does not matter where you send the money from anymore, and european virements are pretty painless.
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