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France bids to reverse tech brain drain

bbc.co.uk

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Re: France bids to reverse tech brain drain

#11

Post by david_p »

seren wrote: post #2

I don't have hard data, but only a feeling that it should be easier to bootstrap in France than in US. Assuming you have worked previously, you can get unemployment benefits, around 60% of your previous salary for a year, and are covered by universal healthcare. So even if you need to have open heart surgery, you won't bankrupt your family for the next 7 generations. Actually someone (very brilliant) in my team is le…

Our startup was created in France 2,5 years ago. Here is our experience:

Some of us started working on the project while getting unemployment benefits (huge boost).

We get (very) affordable office spaces from the city and various incubators (we are located in Paris).

We are able to live on first customers + 0% loans from the state + hundreds of thousands of euros in various grants for innovation (http://www.bpifrance.fr/), so we don't need to dilute our shares by raising funds too early.

We get no income taxes for the first years.

Employees have social security. Healthcare is cheap and very good.

Why would we want to start run company anywhere else?

Re: France bids to reverse tech brain drain

#12

Post by Fiahil »

This "Reviens Léon" initiative is a masquerade and based on the grotesque idea that expats are not french because they crossed a border. Countries are not bound to frontiers anymore, if I'm growing a network out of my country, I'm becoming an ambassador of the whole french culture. How is that less beneficial to its international standing?

French companies and administrations deplore the lack of tech engineers, but at the same time, they don't bother to reduce the overwhelming amount of bureaucratie needed for foreigners (out of the EU) to come work in France. Sounds like the definition of hypocrisy to me.

Re: France bids to reverse tech brain drain

#13

Post by yaps8 »

onli wrote: post #6

Maybe France really changed a lot. But be not mistaken: It is still the most bureaucratic country on earth. Anecdote: I'm doing a PhD in France. Each year, one has to do a re-inscription. In Germany, that means sending money to the university. In France, that means sending in – let me count, I have them on my desk – 17 documents, and to pay as well of course (preferred way: with a check. Like it is 50 years ago). The…

To be fair cheques are still popular in France and regularly used by administration, landlords and individuals.

Re: France bids to reverse tech brain drain

#14

Post by Mimu »

I'm french, while it's true a lot of startup / opportunities in tech appeared in the last few years, most of them don't pay anything.

They all advertise "good work ethic", "good environment", "good whatever" like it justifies for you to be paid like a graduate for an experienced position. You want talent? Pay the price.

Re: France bids to reverse tech brain drain

#15

Post by you_eeeeeediot »

The problem is work ethic. I've been to France on business on 2-week stints about a dozen times, and I can tell you from my experience they do not want to work hard -- at anything. 6hr workdays, and at LEAST 1hr for lunch and worst of all they look at you like you are the crazy one for wanting to get more done each day.

Re: France bids to reverse tech brain drain

#16

Post by fdej »

onli wrote: post #6

Maybe France really changed a lot. But be not mistaken: It is still the most bureaucratic country on earth. Anecdote: I'm doing a PhD in France. Each year, one has to do a re-inscription. In Germany, that means sending money to the university. In France, that means sending in – let me count, I have them on my desk – 17 documents, and to pay as well of course (preferred way: with a check. Like it is 50 years ago). The…

My impression living in France for the last year is very similar to yours. It's the mecca of paperwork (but doing taxes was relatively easy).

And if you're required to supply some documentation from another country, you're likely to be required to get it translated to French by an official translator (which not only takes time but can be quite expensive). In contrast, I've never had a problem handing in German documents to authorities in Sweden and Swedish documents to authorities in Austria. Documents in English have certainly been accepted everywhere outside of France.

The catch-22s are the best. Renting an apartment requires that you have a French bank account, and getting a French bank account requires that you already have somewhere to live in France...

Re: France bids to reverse tech brain drain

#17

Post by [deleted] »

seren wrote: post #2

I don't have hard data, but only a feeling that it should be easier to bootstrap in France than in US. Assuming you have worked previously, you can get unemployment benefits, around 60% of your previous salary for a year, and are covered by universal healthcare. So even if you need to have open heart surgery, you won't bankrupt your family for the next 7 generations. Actually someone (very brilliant) in my team is le…

[deleted]

Re: France bids to reverse tech brain drain

#18

Post by vixen99 »

david_p wrote: post #11
seren wrote: post #2

I don't have hard data, but only a feeling that it should be easier to bootstrap in France than in US. Assuming you have worked previously, you can get unemployment benefits, around 60% of your previous salary for a year, and are covered by universal healthcare. So even if you need to have open heart surgery, you won't bankrupt your family for the next 7 generations. Actually someone (very brilliant) in my team is le…

Our startup was created in France 2,5 years ago. Here is our experience: Some of us started working on the project while getting unemployment benefits (huge boost). We get (very) affordable office spaces from the city and various incubators (we are located in Paris). We are able to live on first customers + 0% loans from the state + hundreds of thousands of euros in various grants for innovation ( http://www.bpifranc…

So one wonders why there's a problem because evidently there is.

Re: France bids to reverse tech brain drain

#19

Post by david_p »

p0nce wrote: post #5
seren wrote: post #2

I don't have hard data, but only a feeling that it should be easier to bootstrap in France than in US. Assuming you have worked previously, you can get unemployment benefits, around 60% of your previous salary for a year, and are covered by universal healthcare. So even if you need to have open heart surgery, you won't bankrupt your family for the next 7 generations. Actually someone (very brilliant) in my team is le…

> around 60% of your previous salary for a year Two years actually, provided you have the right contract termination.

it's more than 70% actually.

Re: France bids to reverse tech brain drain

#20

Post by negrit »

yaps8 wrote: post #13
onli wrote: post #6

Maybe France really changed a lot. But be not mistaken: It is still the most bureaucratic country on earth. Anecdote: I'm doing a PhD in France. Each year, one has to do a re-inscription. In Germany, that means sending money to the university. In France, that means sending in – let me count, I have them on my desk – 17 documents, and to pay as well of course (preferred way: with a check. Like it is 50 years ago). The…

To be fair cheques are still popular in France and regularly used by administration, landlords and individuals.

To be fair cheques are also popular in the US. Until recently I had to pay my rent with Cheque. I live in an apartment complex in San Francisco.
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