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Removable batteries in smartphones will be mandatory in the EU starting in 2027

ecopv-eu.com

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Re: Removable batteries in smartphones will be mandatory in the EU starting in 2027

#291

Post by tremon »

badsectoracula wrote: post #191
ratiolat wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IP68, replaceable battery, phone jack, 5G: https://m.gsmarena.com/samsung_galaxy_xcover6_pro-11600.php

Unfortunately it is from 2022, meaning no OS upgrades. I think the next mandatory laws EU should pass is that manufacturers should either allow people to upgrade/replace the OS by themselves or provide mandatory upgrades for the next decade (i don't care how the manufacturers handle it, that's up to them, but the easiest way out of such a law is to allow people upgrade/replace the OS by themselves).

The regulation already mandates an OS upgrade period, but the period depends on how long the manufacturer keeps selling the model: software updates must be provided for five years from the day when the manufacturer stops selling the product. From Annex II B, section 1.2:

> (6) Operating system updates:

> (a) from the date of end of placement on the market to at least 5 years after that date, manufacturers, importers or authorised representatives shall, if they provide security updates, corrective updates or functionality updates to an operating system, make such updates available at no cost for all units of a product model with the same operating system;

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/eli/reg/2023/1670/oj

There's some weasel wording there ("if they provide ..."), so I'm curious how the courts are going to interpret that clause.

Re: Removable batteries in smartphones will be mandatory in the EU starting in 2027

#292

Post by echoangle »

spankibalt wrote: post #271
echoangle wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because you’ll be the only manufacturer making the desired product and have 100% of this market? If there are multiple manufacturers competing, surely one of them would do it if it’s profitable?

Yeah, sure, some of them already do. Their market share is practically negligible, enterprise players (e. g. Samsung with their Galaxy Xcover line) notwithstanding. That, on a strictly personal level, still doesn't mean they offer a desirable product.

Yes, but it’s an indicator that the general consumer doesn’t care that much about it.

And I say that as an absolute supporter of the mandatory USB C. But I don’t think the average consumer cares enough about it that apple would have switched without being forced.

Re: Removable batteries in smartphones will be mandatory in the EU starting in 2027

#293

Post by torginus »

badsectoracula wrote: post #191
ratiolat wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IP68, replaceable battery, phone jack, 5G: https://m.gsmarena.com/samsung_galaxy_xcover6_pro-11600.php

Unfortunately it is from 2022, meaning no OS upgrades. I think the next mandatory laws EU should pass is that manufacturers should either allow people to upgrade/replace the OS by themselves or provide mandatory upgrades for the next decade (i don't care how the manufacturers handle it, that's up to them, but the easiest way out of such a law is to allow people upgrade/replace the OS by themselves).

Phones should be like PCs - they give you the hardware, and you figure out what to install on it. Unfortunately Linux imo is partially to blame here - if they decided to do a stable driver ABI (don't hate me, this was the norm outside Linux and open source OSes), you could easily separate the OS and drivers and update the m separately.

Re: Removable batteries in smartphones will be mandatory in the EU starting in 2027

#294

Post by detourdog »

mrandish wrote: post #49
Aurornis wrote: post #24

As others have mentioned this is for phones with batteries that can’t survive a reasonable number of cycles. That’s a reasonable exemption, in my opinion. I don’t want to pay the extra penalties of reduced structural rigidity and water tightness for a battery that I don’t need to replace for 3-4 years anyway. I do wish one manufacturer would make a flagship phone with replaceable battery so all of the uncompromising…

This regulation isn't primarily for fans of replaceable batteries, it's driven by general concerns about e-waste. It's unclear how much it might actually reduce e-waste in practice but it will certainly increase compliance costs.

At least it's a performance standard. If the Government is going to regulate consumer products I would rather it be performance standards than implementation details. If a device doesn't meet performance standards it can trigger warranty requirements.

Re: Removable batteries in smartphones will be mandatory in the EU starting in 2027

#295

Post by catdog »

subhobroto wrote: post #96

I'm not a fan of regulation in general but over the last decade it has been extremely frustrating with the removal of replaceable SD cards and batteries from Androids. I never put my phones in my back pocket nor do I wear butt hugging leggings, so having a thick phone stick out my ass and make it look bad isn't on my list of worries. I end up purchasing thick waterproof cases for these slim phones anyways. What's mos…

I think in general not being able to replace the battery toolless is quite an acceptable compromise nowadays. The needed mechanism and the protective shell the replaceable battery needs definitely takes up space which can be used for more capacity instead. You have (sometimes quite insane) fast charging and also powerbanks which support it. Also quality batteries can be quite durable.

The real problem I think is the hostility towards repair, glue everywhere, no spare parts, etc.

Re: Removable batteries in smartphones will be mandatory in the EU starting in 2027

#296

Post by dml2135 »

yason wrote: post #288

In principle, this is the kind of right sentiment but for the wrong things. I can't remember a phone that died because of the battery since the era of Ni-Cd cells in early cell phones. I don't think I've never discarded a phone with a li-ion battery because of the battery. It's always physical breakage or getting too slow to be usable, because of age. Sure, I don't spend a cycle per day. Not even every other day. Tha…

> getting too slow to be usable

Not sure what the behavior is like on Android, but iOS will throttle performance if your battery has degraded past a certain state. So I'm sure that there are many iPhone users that are replacing their phone due to what they think is poor performance related to the age of the phone, when it's really due to the age of the battery.

Re: Removable batteries in smartphones will be mandatory in the EU starting in 2027

#298

Post by InsomniacL »

strictnein wrote: post #207
alt227 wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Continuing to take photos with a battery pack hanging off a device is no where near as simple as popping in a fresh 100% battery and coninuing as normal.

These don't dangle or impede your use: https://www.anker.com/products/a1665-5k-ultra-slim-qi2-power...

just to note, wireless charging is very inefficient. From the page you linked:

"Due to a 30% to 45% energy loss in battery cells and conversion circuitry, a fully charged 5,000 mAh power bank typically offers an estimated 2,750 to 3,500mAh to power devices"

Re: Removable batteries in smartphones will be mandatory in the EU starting in 2027

#299

Post by bigbuppo »

elzbardico wrote: post #216
mossTechnician wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many flagship phones promise 7 years of security updates now. 3-4 years means the battery will only last for half that time, and heavy users (1 cycle per day) will hit that quota in under 2.75 years.

Then the law should just make sure that there's a second source at least for the batteries, that technicians have free access to disassembly instructions, and that it can be done without undue effort or risk. Requiring common tools or technical skills for replacing something that last 4 years is not a hassle to justify enshitiffying phones design as long as you're not vendor locked for such replacement, and a technic…

I'm old enough to remember the old Nokia phones that had removable cases, removable batteries, and you would have upgrade envy for the last year of your 36 month cell service contract. Then we had wince and early android devices and BlackBerries which were pretty much the same.

Somehow we made it work back then.

Re: Removable batteries in smartphones will be mandatory in the EU starting in 2027

#300

Post by torginus »

GuB-42 wrote: post #249
kaiwn wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

2 mm thicker and 58 grams heavier than the latest iPhone.

It is also a rugged phone. So if you want to make a fair comparison with an iPhone, you have to put the iPhone in a case, resulting in a similar weight and thickness.

Yeah the first thing everyone does with their new iPhones is put them in a case - at that point thinness doesn't matter, Id argue Apple counts on it, as their phones are awkward to hold otherwise.

Replaceable covers used to serve the same purpose.

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