291–300 of 432 posts
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We have had the Five Eyes and ECHELON for decades. Since before the Snowden revelations. How is this different? They don’t spy on their own citizens but they exchange info with the other spy agencies, so…
> They don’t spy on their own citizens They sure do; whatever gave you the impression they don’t?
So what is the concern here? The USA wants to check those who turn up at their border is who they say they are, and they also want to know if they are a good egg as far as the authorities know where they are from. Both of these sound iminently reasonable.
The concern is they want to access biometric data in an automated fashion. The USA are known to be careless and/or evil when it comes to dealing with sensitive data. Why can't they just run someones fingerprint at the airport against their national databases and any international terrorist databases that might exist?
Anything happening at the scales international travel flows at needs to be automated.
> The USA are known to be careless and/or evil when it comes to dealing with sensitive data.
What is the specific carelessness or evil you are worried about?
> Why can't they just run someones fingerprint at the airport against their national databases
I assume they do. But of course if someone has lived most of their life outside of the USA any criminal record they might have will be outside of the USA.
> and any international terrorist databases that might exist?
Why should they only be concerned about terrorism?
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> (1) find how many European military bases there are on US soil To do what? Counter the Canadian threat to US American territorial integrity? Prevent war between California and ethnic Nevadans? Monitor unmanaged flows of migrants from unstable regions? Hmm, well maybe that one. But really, one of the great blessings of the US is a lack of any home-front excitement, which makes this comparison pretty silly. Not that…
Right, so what for are the US military bases on European soil then? (Please spare me the part about protecting Europe from outside threats story). Would they leave if we asked nicely enough? Like Pretty please ? Would it really take just that?
Random citizen asking obviously does nothing, but foreign base COs are always desperately trying to keep their forces on best behavior to minimize frustration. That's not easy when you import a bunch of guys in the age range that most often causes trouble, give them significant spending money, and remove them from past anchoring influences. It's worse when the receiving society is more orderly; I have Japan in mind.
Fighting against those problems is that all political leadership generally benefits from the arrangements. The foreign host nation gets economic activity and some amount of bargaining power, and the US gets a location that obviously is helpful for some strategic objective.
>Right, so what for are the US military bases on European soil then? (Please spare me the part about protecting Europe from outside threats story).
An anomalous, peaceful Europe is the water that you're swimming in, and I'm trying to point out that it's wet. I recognize the limited prospects of the endeavor. Though, if it's the outside part you're rejecting, I'll acknowledge my imprecise wording. Russia is the outside threat, being outside the Western European culture that is defended, but threats come from within Europe too.
[0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Naval_Base_Subic_Bay
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I'm not sure that hyperbole is possible when you're discussing the necessity of having worldwide biometric "terrorist" lists that countries like Saudi Arabia would participate in. ----- edit: How would you code "terrorism through public demonstrations of driving while female" or "terrorism through being Yemen?" "Terrorism though applying for a marriage license after being mildly critical in the WaPo."
In Saudi Arabia atheists are terrorists. And they also have the death penalty for terrorism.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
The concern is they want to access biometric data in an automated fashion. The USA are known to be careless and/or evil when it comes to dealing with sensitive data. Why can't they just run someones fingerprint at the airport against their national databases and any international terrorist databases that might exist?
> The concern is they want to access biometric data in an automated fashion. Anything happening at the scales international travel flows at needs to be automated. > The USA are known to be careless and/or evil when it comes to dealing with sensitive data. What is the specific carelessness or evil you are worried about? > Why can't they just run someones fingerprint at the airport against their national databases I as…
The US government has just lost databases with biometric data of millions of afghan people, together with the information whether they worked for the ISAF forces which puts those peoples life in immediate danger. When confronted with that, the US government did not indicate that they care about it.
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> Oh dear, dear EU, please show some teeth on this matter, god help us if you do not. > The EU is the only place on earth having kinda sensitive big data/privacy laws and enforcements thereof Only for corporations, not for governments. EU already has mandatory ID cards with biometric data (fingerprints), while AFAIK there is no such systematic collection of biometric data in US.
You have the 5 eyes and NSA instead, whatever they do not have, apple, ms, aws and google will have. If we put all these things aside, AEoI exists and if a bank does due diligence on mortgages, loans and car leases, they collect plenty of stuff, if they have it, the government can have it. The EU mindlessly signed up for that, now the US gets all that insight, meanwhile, its almost impossible for americans to open a…
I am EU citizen and i think that my government is collecting much more personal data than necessary. Whether they would also share these data with the US government is for me much smaller concern than the fact they collect it for themselves.
Whether it's good local privacy laws in your country or a good privacy-respecting TOS from a company, both are basically worthless when a bigger entity comes barging into the picture. So your government collects biometric data but passes laws promising not to misuse it... you may very well find that those promises are worth less than dirt when a country with leverage over your own starts making demands that your gove…
LOL dude the EU is one of the driving forcing on making sure there is a complete history of ever person.
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Yes, actually. - If you host your own servers you can still verify. - if you are using well-designed, human-centric software, untrusted servers (read: all servers you do not have control of / cannot audit) would not have any access to private data due to encryption, and clients can be verified to make sure decryption only occurs on the client side The trouble is, this kind of software is a poison pill to advertising.…
You say "human-centric", but you really mean "what I want". Many more humans would be upset at being unable to recover their data if they forget their password than would be pleased by this.
Custodial services can always still exist for those among us that are incompetent.
I sincerely hope that the EU will give the appropriate but unprintable response to this request. At the time the biometric data was first collected plenty of people warned about this exact thing and we were repeatedly assured that it would never happen. Let's see if that is still true today. Never is such a long time...
I hope not normally the EU just complies behind the scenes. I understand why that's unprintable but I wish they wouldn't lie to the population about how they handle this.
Reading through the slides, it appears that what has been discussed is sharing signature and fingerprints for travel into the USA. There is a lot of weasel words, but it's probably worth nothing that the USA currently collects this information for foreign nationals coming into the USA (as the EU does for Americans traveling into the EU). This is being done in the context of a DB query as part of the e VISA applicatio…
I'm not even sure how to classify this sentence...