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US Government demands direct police access to European biometric data [pdf]

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Re: US Government demands direct police access to European biometric data [pdf]

#181

Post by jolux »

survirtual wrote: post #173
LarryMullins wrote: post #77

Whether it's good local privacy laws in your country or a good privacy-respecting TOS from a company, both are basically worthless when a bigger entity comes barging into the picture. So your government collects biometric data but passes laws promising not to misuse it... you may very well find that those promises are worth less than dirt when a country with leverage over your own starts making demands that your gove…

This is very correct. However, I would amend your solution: the solution is modern encryption and open source. These two in conjunction allow you to verify trust. ToS is like HR: they both exist to protect only the company.

> These two in conjunction allow you to verify trust.

Not when it comes to server-based software.

Re: US Government demands direct police access to European biometric data [pdf]

#182

Post by cscurmudgeon »

bee_rider wrote: post #151
frankfrankfrank wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get the sense you do not quite understand how much essentially all of Europe is a vassal state of the group of people that also has a stranglehold on America.

Life in Europe looks pretty nice from the outside at least. Could America sign up for self-vassalage or something?

Just from the outside

Re: US Government demands direct police access to European biometric data [pdf]

#183

Post by bee_rider »

IncRnd wrote: post #148
EGreg wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their mandate doesnt allow it https://www.aclu.org/other/nsa-spying-americans-illegal

I know that wasn't a serious comment, saying that federal government agencies follow their mandates and never break the law. PS I see that you have edited your comment to add a link, https://www.aclu.org/other/nsa-spying-americans-illegal . That link shows that the government illegally spys on citizens, which is the opposite of what you meant to show.

Why break the law to spy on Americans? We give all our private information out to any website that asks and shout out political opinions out into the void on Twitter. Just buy the list of people really interested in fertilizer and not farming from some data broker. Totally legal private sector transaction!

Re: US Government demands direct police access to European biometric data [pdf]

#184

Post by omgomgomgomg »

pessimizer wrote: post #96
InTheArena wrote: post #62

Reading through the slides, it appears that what has been discussed is sharing signature and fingerprints for travel into the USA. There is a lot of weasel words, but it's probably worth nothing that the USA currently collects this information for foreign nationals coming into the USA (as the EU does for Americans traveling into the EU). This is being done in the context of a DB query as part of the e VISA applicatio…

I'm not sure that hyperbole is possible when you're discussing the necessity of having worldwide biometric "terrorist" lists that countries like Saudi Arabia would participate in. ----- edit: How would you code "terrorism through public demonstrations of driving while female" or "terrorism through being Yemen?" "Terrorism though applying for a marriage license after being mildly critical in the WaPo."

Finance background here.

All these PEP, sanction lists, ofac monitoring, financial sanction lists already exist and every company with a worthwile monetary turnover ever facing an audit runs these background checks.

The laws are there, they are called the aml directives, the lists are there.

And most of the entries there are provided by eitjer uk or us entities, youll usually find foreign military personells data there, dob, rank, id number, name but not much else.

It is bit of a joke as many muslim people have similar names and joe shmoes get flagged for nothing very often.

Meanwhile, the people on these lists are very high up within their own government hierarchy, they probably have 5 differe t passports.

Btw, these lists are csv files often...some sophistication.

Yea, monitor peps, fugitives and terrorists, but find a way without combing through the whole worlds innocent citizens.

Re: US Government demands direct police access to European biometric data [pdf]

#185

Post by QuarterReptile »

sfusato wrote: post #167
epolanski wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would we have to give two damns about American demands, I don't see that having any chance.

Uhmm, you may want to update your knowledge on the history of the 1945-2022 period tldr: USA is the current world empire; EU are their vassals Homework: (1) find how many European military bases there are on US soil; (2) find how many US military bases there are on European soil;

> (1) find how many European military bases there are on US soil

To do what? Counter the Canadian threat to US American territorial integrity? Prevent war between California and ethnic Nevadans? Monitor unmanaged flows of migrants from unstable regions? Hmm, well maybe that one.

But really, one of the great blessings of the US is a lack of any home-front excitement, which makes this comparison pretty silly. Not that that disagrees with the hypotheses that the US is a world empire and the EU's present existence is predicated on US military size and operations.

Re: US Government demands direct police access to European biometric data [pdf]

#186

Post by kmeisthax »

epolanski wrote: post #120
LarryMullins wrote: post #77

Whether it's good local privacy laws in your country or a good privacy-respecting TOS from a company, both are basically worthless when a bigger entity comes barging into the picture. So your government collects biometric data but passes laws promising not to misuse it... you may very well find that those promises are worth less than dirt when a country with leverage over your own starts making demands that your gove…

Why would we have to give two damns about American demands, I don't see that having any chance.

Because sovereignty ends at borders.

Europeans want to vacation in the US. The US demands biometric authentication upon crossing the border. So you either give them that data or the US stops letting Europeans in.

And I doubt Europe is going to be any better at not demanding biometric data than the US is, because Europe has the same underlying incentives to do so (i.e. a restrictive immigration system, a large portion of the population who want to NIMBY entire races of people, and a large body of laws to enforce).

Re: US Government demands direct police access to European biometric data [pdf]

#187

Post by devmunchies »

ecef9-8c0f-4374 wrote: post #180
survirtual wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is very correct. However, I would amend your solution: the solution is modern encryption and open source. These two in conjunction allow you to verify trust. ToS is like HR: they both exist to protect only the company.

ok. now the US government demands not to use modern encryption and open source. And we are back at square one.

That could go to the supreme court, maybe violates the 4th amendment?

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated"

meaning, I got the right to secure my sh*t.

Re: US Government demands direct police access to European biometric data [pdf]

#188

Post by survirtual »

jolux wrote: post #181
survirtual wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is very correct. However, I would amend your solution: the solution is modern encryption and open source. These two in conjunction allow you to verify trust. ToS is like HR: they both exist to protect only the company.

> These two in conjunction allow you to verify trust. Not when it comes to server-based software.

Yes, actually.

- If you host your own servers you can still verify.

- if you are using well-designed, human-centric software, untrusted servers (read: all servers you do not have control of / cannot audit) would not have any access to private data due to encryption, and clients can be verified to make sure decryption only occurs on the client side

The trouble is, this kind of software is a poison pill to advertising. It will be a long time before it takes over.

Re: US Government demands direct police access to European biometric data [pdf]

#189

Post by SQueeeeeL »

pc86 wrote: post #178
omgomgomgomg wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not sure why this is downvoted, the guy is exactly right. I would have thought HN is more on the small government political spectrum, it appears this does not count for foreign policy?

HN is on the small government side only insofar as it relates to tech legislation and adjacent regulations. It's pretty typically left-leaning California-esque politics otherwise.

[flagged]

Re: US Government demands direct police access to European biometric data [pdf]

#190

Post by omgomgomgomg »

narag wrote: post #93
hardlianotion wrote: post #23

One question that always seems to be unclear and insufficiently negotiated is reciprocity. What is the US going to offer in return. If they do offer to reciprocate, it actually needs to be delivered before the deal is live. That said, I think it is a shitty deal for these leaky, insecure, bad faith entities to be able to negotiate off to the side with our sensitive personal data like this.

What is the US going to offer in return. I suspect, without proof but read next paragraphs for some evidence, that the US offer their surveillance net. If EU police is searching for someone, even in our own territory, it's easier for US intelligence agencies to locate and eavesdrop on the suspect with the tech that we know. El Pollo Carvajal [0] was arrested in Madrid, September 2021. Although it was our police that…

This all worked without this approach, this is why interpol and fbi have collaborative projects.
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