How to find a job as Software Developer in Germany • Hacker News Board

Re: How to find a job as Software Developer in Germany

#291

Post by bradlys » Fri, Apr 23, 2021, 3:30 AM UTC

light_hue_1 wrote: post #232

jakub_g wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I exaggerated in my post, but the general difference is: in US to access high paying jobs, you can either live in city centres where rent is sky high, or suburbs which are very car-centric. This is not compelling to many Europeans. I might not be earning six-digit salary, but I don't share a room with 3 people and don't live in a van (this is probably grotesque but there were many stories like that on HN alone). Abou…

> I exaggerated in my post, but the general difference is: in US to access high paying jobs, you can either live in city centres where rent is sky high, or suburbs which are very car-centric. This is not compelling to many Europeans. I might not be earning six-digit salary, but I don't share a room with 3 people and don't live in a van (this is probably grotesque but there were many stories like that on HN alone). Re…

> As a mid career developer you can easily afford a house even in SF-NY.

I’m pro-US and SF/NY as anyone but this isn’t accurate. If you want a house comparable to one you’d get in a MCOL city like Sacramento/Portland (3-4 bd, 1800+ sqft, good schools), you’re going to be forking over $2m+. That’s not very easy to achieve even for SF engineers. You need to be staff at FAANG or similar and preferably with a high earning partner (lawyer, doctor, executive, etc). Otherwise you’re gonna be house poor.

I still agree US is generally very good for engineers, especially ones in SF/NY/Seattle. But let’s not fool people with saying real estate is also very affordable...

Re: How to find a job as Software Developer in Germany

#292

Post by erinnh » Fri, Apr 23, 2021, 3:53 AM UTC

maaaaattttt wrote: post #103

erinnh wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thats wrong. At least right now. 10% down payment is quite common currently in Germany for a house.

Well the money still needs to be paid at some point. If you go the 10% deposit route, you will get slightly worse interest rates and overall higher monthly payments. Payments that you need to maintain for ~20 years…

The 10% is what is currently often done because it barely moves the interest rates.

The interest rates are just so low that waiting to get a loan and buy a house is mostly money lost by not getting that stupidly low interest loan.

Re: How to find a job as Software Developer in Germany

#293

Post by alkonaut » Fri, Apr 23, 2021, 5:22 AM UTC

llampx wrote: post #277

alkonaut wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you're not paying off the principal, you're just renting from the bank without the benefit of having a landlord to fix things. Renting a house is more or less unheard of. If I want a house I need to buy one (or: “rent from the bank” as it were) And the market price is basically “what two high income earners can afford if they pay interest only”. So: if I want to live in a house at all, I need to buy it using bor…

Interest is not deductible in Germany., Unlike the US.

Yes I’m sure I would have a completely different calculation if I was in Germany.

Re: How to find a job as Software Developer in Germany

#294

Post by f1refly » Fri, Apr 23, 2021, 5:52 AM UTC

908B64B197 wrote: post #288

sdevonoes wrote: post #8

> To sum up: if you are single and opt for "live cool and don't care about expenses" style, then an average developer salary will be enough (it might be harder if you have a family to feed). > On the other hand, if you choose to go the student-like route (living in Wohngemeinschaft and not eating out too much), you can easily manage with just 1.200-1.500 EUR per month, and save the majority of your salary. I know it…

If Europeans devs want better compensation what they need to do is simply vote with their feet and relocate to SV. That's the only way.

Then you'd have to live in america though and I don't know a single peer who considers that an acceptable tradeoff.

Re: How to find a job as Software Developer in Germany

#295

Post by switch007 » Fri, Apr 23, 2021, 6:04 AM UTC

jsdwarf wrote: post #122

erinnh wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thats wrong. At least right now. 10% down payment is quite common currently in Germany for a house.

10% is the absolute minimum and doesn't buy you anything of the house, it just covers the legal and realtor fees.

That is mad. On a 500,000 EUR house, 50,000 EUR goes to realtors and lawyers?! What on earth are they doing for that kind of money? Is that including some large tax?

In the UK, you wouldn’t pay more than a few thousand for a lawyer and associated conveyancing fees, and the vendor pays the realtor (usually in the range of 0.5-1.5% I believe).

We do have stamp duty (tax) which can be substantial eg 15,000 on a 500,000 property.

Re: How to find a job as Software Developer in Germany

#296

Post by alkonaut » Fri, Apr 23, 2021, 6:08 AM UTC

imtringued wrote: post #272

alkonaut wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Savings is for a down payment. Then you pay mortgages on the house and any savings are much better to keep (retirement, buffer, ..). If I were to save to buy my house (€800K) I'd certainly not be living in it before the kids move out, at which point I no longer need a house. The price of a house on the market has a pretty simple formula: it's what two incomes can pay per month times the interest rate they expect over…

Sure the market says you should put the money into stocks, but from a risk perspective this is not meaningfully different from paying off your mortgage and then borrowing money at an incredibly low interest rate for the sake of buying stocks. It's still trading on margin. If you must do this, then don't use the money on moonshots and pick something with low volatility.

If course, but there is little chance to borrow money without security at 1% as the mortgage interest is and it’s currently trivial to beat. There are literally savings accounts with interest rate over my mortgage interest, meaning there is a zero risk arbitrage opportunity.

Even if you don’t invest it, if you have other credit (car, credit cards) obviously paying those first is always a better choice too.

Re: How to find a job as Software Developer in Germany

#297

Post by speedplane » Fri, Apr 23, 2021, 6:15 AM UTC

alkonaut wrote: post #296

imtringued wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure the market says you should put the money into stocks, but from a risk perspective this is not meaningfully different from paying off your mortgage and then borrowing money at an incredibly low interest rate for the sake of buying stocks. It's still trading on margin. If you must do this, then don't use the money on moonshots and pick something with low volatility.

If course, but there is little chance to borrow money without security at 1% as the mortgage interest is and it’s currently trivial to beat. There are literally savings accounts with interest rate over my mortgage interest, meaning there is a zero risk arbitrage opportunity. Even if you don’t invest it, if you have other credit (car, credit cards) obviously paying those first is always a better choice too.

> There are literally savings accounts with interest rate over my mortgage interest, meaning there is a zero risk arbitrage opportunity.

Many utilities give an 8-9% interest rate on bonds, with very little risk (Comcast isn't going bankrupt soon). That said, there's no such thing as zero-risk arbitrage.

Re: How to find a job as Software Developer in Germany

#298

Post by alkonaut » Fri, Apr 23, 2021, 6:24 AM UTC

speedplane wrote: post #297

alkonaut wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If course, but there is little chance to borrow money without security at 1% as the mortgage interest is and it’s currently trivial to beat. There are literally savings accounts with interest rate over my mortgage interest, meaning there is a zero risk arbitrage opportunity. Even if you don’t invest it, if you have other credit (car, credit cards) obviously paying those first is always a better choice too.

> There are literally savings accounts with interest rate over my mortgage interest, meaning there is a zero risk arbitrage opportunity. Many utilities give an 8-9% interest rate on bonds, with very little risk (Comcast isn't going bankrupt soon). That said, there's no such thing as zero-risk arbitrage.

When the savings are state guaranteed in the savings account, the risk is basically limited by the credit rating of the nation. It’s never zero but for stable economies it’s as low as you get

Re: How to find a job as Software Developer in Germany

#299

Post by luckystarr » Fri, Apr 23, 2021, 9:10 AM UTC

_def wrote: post #165

Is my perspective skewed or are part time tech jobs pretty rare in Germany?

They are rate, but §8 of the TzBfG (Part-Time Work and Fixed-term Employment Contracts Act) anyone who has worked for a company for at least 6 months has the right to reduce their monthly hours. Companies can only refuse in very dire situations (like the company going bust otherwise). Of course the pay will be proportionally reduced as well.

It's not very widely used, because either some employees fear repercussions by their employer, or the just need the money. I've done it in the past and it's awesome.

Re: How to find a job as Software Developer in Germany

#300

Post by barrkel » Fri, Apr 23, 2021, 9:20 AM UTC

IdiocyInAction wrote: post #202

lacker wrote: post #123

The salaries seem really low. The absolute highest paying job listed on their site is a 110,000 euro salary, but you can get more than that with zero experience in California. I wonder if it would be better for software engineers in Germany to simply get remote working jobs for US companies.

US companies don't pay 100k+ in Europe. Amazon pays like 60k base for SDE1 where I live and I think Google pays 70k+ base.

I got an L6 offer from Amazon AWS in Berlin well in excess of 100k not including stock, which was into 6 figures over 4 years, but of course Amazon's 5/15/40/40 vesting schedule and rarity of stock refresh means you can't easily convert into yearly TC.

I took an offer from Google instead, for more, but it's in Zurich.