Lime shuts in 12 markets, lays off around 100 • Hacker News Board

Re: Lime shuts in 12 markets, lays off around 100

#291

Post by jsemrau » Fri, Jan 10, 2020, 1:56 AM UTC

holler wrote: post #252

bransonf wrote: post #42

Does anyone actually think this is a profitable market? Electric scooters are expensive, repair and charging is expensive. It’s a seasonal business. Vandalism/abuse is fairly common. In terms of any environmental benefit, I highly suspect more gasoline is being consumed to collect and distribute scooters than the offset of a few last mile transports. I suspect the cost to the consumer would have to double for it to m…

Very simple, have you ever rode a scooter? Once I took a ride along the beach in Southern California, it was immediately obvious, and, I was hooked! It's a disruptive, perfect combination of technologies, that immediately antiquates riding a bike for short distances. The main problem is that it's too good, and people with poor balance, poor judgement, or bad luck, have been in accidents which ruined it for everyone e…

On paper Singapore, should have been the perfect market for eScooters. A central, urban, well-developed infrastructure, low crime, stable warm weather without seasons, you name it. Starting December PMD's were banned.

Mostly because people behaving like idiots riding scooters on the sidewalks leading to at least two serious accidents per day. Bicycles are still allowed.

Lessons learned : The urban infrastructure needs to have space for the eScooters to co-exist with other participants (cars and pedestrians alike)

Re: Lime shuts in 12 markets, lays off around 100

#292

Post by leetcrew » Fri, Jan 10, 2020, 1:56 AM UTC

mixmastamyk wrote: post #276

giobox wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to be bullish on ebikes for commuting, until I started buying secondhand ones barely a few months old on craigslist at steep discounts for my own family. In every case, the owner had a change of heart and switched to a scooter. Why? Because the ebike is huge and heavy, needs dedicated locking, parking etc. Often there isn't room for it on the bus/train. They all found the scooter way better for last mile style…

Unfortunately scooters are more dangerous, the little wheels and high center of gravity means eating concrete is more likely than a bike.

there are some scooters you can buy that go way too fast, but the ones you can rent usually max out around 15mph, and that's only on a warm day with a full charge. it's definitely less stable than a bike, but every time I've hit a pothole I've just ended up awkwardly running alongside the scooter for a few steps. I'm not quite sure what people are doing that leads them to eat concrete. I've certainly never seen it happen in my city, even with squads of drunk college students riding them on the weekends.

Re: Lime shuts in 12 markets, lays off around 100

#293

Post by tzs » Fri, Jan 10, 2020, 2:05 AM UTC

xwowsersx wrote: post #273

tzs wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How far the destination of his final trip of the day is from the start of his first trip of the day.

Sorry, I'm slow I still don't get it. Zero displacement then means he's doing straight round-trips where he's going back to where he started? If so, why does that matter? I'm missing something basic here.

I believe that what he's getting at is that most people are going to start out from home, travel to work, and end the day traveling back home. There may be stops during that for shopping, or round trips from and back to work for things like lunch. But at a high level it is "go out from home in the morning, come back home in the evening, and then do the whole thing again the next day".

With this pattern, you want some form of transit that will reliably be there for you in the morning, every morning.

Owning your own car, motorcycle, bike, or scooter works for that. It's yours so it will be there for you whenever you want.

Public transit can also work, if there are stops or stations near enough to your home and work and it operates on a schedule that fits yours.

His point is that transportation services like Lime, where you pick up scooters from whatever semi-random place the last user left it and you are supposed to stay within some specified area don't work well for the home => office => home cycle. There may not be a scooter near your home in the morning, even if you happened to have left one there the night before. For a lot of people, home will also be outside the service area, so taking one home would incur penalties.

But if you have you own car, motorcycle, bike, or scooter, and you have to use that to go to work, then using that for all your other transportation while in the city is probably going to make more sense than renting a Lime scooter.

I think he's being a little too pessimistic about the market for something like Lime. I've worked at places where I've driven my own car in, but would have been happy to have something like Lime while at the office for things like going out for lunch, because lunchtime traffic was pretty bad around the office but there weren't any good lunch places in easy walking distance.

Re: Lime shuts in 12 markets, lays off around 100

#294

Post by conanbatt » Fri, Jan 10, 2020, 2:05 AM UTC

derefr wrote: post #277

9HZZRfNlpR wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's going on in America if absolutely everyone is afraid if theft? Or are the bikes just big target?

It's just bikes. Mostly because they're valuable+standardized enough to be easily fenced, and yet not high-value enough for police to bother investigating. It's like leaving MacBooks sitting on street corners.

My understanding is that bike theft is not prosecuted, even if you found someone that stole 1000 bikes.

If you stole 10 dollars from a bank, you can bet you are prosecuted. Bikes are just not defended as private property for some reason.

Re: Lime shuts in 12 markets, lays off around 100

#295

Post by xwowsersx » Fri, Jan 10, 2020, 2:08 AM UTC

tzs wrote: post #293

xwowsersx wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, I'm slow I still don't get it. Zero displacement then means he's doing straight round-trips where he's going back to where he started? If so, why does that matter? I'm missing something basic here.

I believe that what he's getting at is that most people are going to start out from home, travel to work, and end the day traveling back home. There may be stops during that for shopping, or round trips from and back to work for things like lunch. But at a high level it is "go out from home in the morning, come back home in the evening, and then do the whole thing again the next day". With this pattern, you want some…

Oh I see. Thanks so much for the thorough reply.

Re: Lime shuts in 12 markets, lays off around 100

#296

Post by leetcrew » Fri, Jan 10, 2020, 2:09 AM UTC

zymhan wrote: post #189

mdorazio wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And, you know, basic financial planning... For the vast majority of people, renting basic unsubsidized transit methods on a daily basis costs far more than owning and operating your own. Good for you if your financial situation allows you to ignore that fact, but it’s rather yuppy bubble thinking to assume that applies to everyone.

Basic financial planning would indicate that owning a money losing asset (i.e. car) is not a good idea. I can assure you I've spent far less not owning a car, even with every Uber ride, car rental, scooter rental, transit, and taxi ride.

every day I drive ~20 miles to work. for car ownership to be economic, the cost per trip just has to be less than uber or the difference in pay between my software gig and a job I could walk to.

Re: Lime shuts in 12 markets, lays off around 100

#297

Post by leetcrew » Fri, Jan 10, 2020, 2:21 AM UTC

zymhan wrote: post #190

Aperocky wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If nobody ever stole anything, I'd wholeheartedly support that. In fact, I'm willing to shell out 5 times the regular cost for a bike that would never ever be stolen wherever I leave it. Finding places to park and lock and worry about it not getting stolen is just way too much. Relevant: I've owned 4 $1000+ bike over the past 10 years, one of which is stolen right outside home, another is almost stolen (moved then fo…

Thankfully no one ever steals cars.

cars are stolen much less frequently than bikes. if your car does get stolen, you're pretty likely to get it back, although you may have to pay for some repairs. if your bike gets stolen, you'll probably never see it again.

Re: Lime shuts in 12 markets, lays off around 100

#298

Post by danans » Fri, Jan 10, 2020, 2:22 AM UTC

zymhan wrote: post #189

mdorazio wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And, you know, basic financial planning... For the vast majority of people, renting basic unsubsidized transit methods on a daily basis costs far more than owning and operating your own. Good for you if your financial situation allows you to ignore that fact, but it’s rather yuppy bubble thinking to assume that applies to everyone.

Basic financial planning would indicate that owning a money losing asset (i.e. car) is not a good idea. I can assure you I've spent far less not owning a car, even with every Uber ride, car rental, scooter rental, transit, and taxi ride.

> Basic financial planning would indicate that owning a money losing asset (i.e. car) is not a good idea.

Only if you have an alternate way to get to work like good public transportation. Otherwise buying a depreciating asset like a car is the only way to survive in many places. It's like paying rent. Perhaps not ideal, but it is a practical reality for many.

Re: Lime shuts in 12 markets, lays off around 100

#299

Post by dzhiurgis » Fri, Jan 10, 2020, 2:25 AM UTC

RowanH wrote: post #182

Koremat6666 wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is a solely hipster thingy of bay area. The alternative to scooter is walking little more. If the range of your feet is say half a mile (you are willing to walk half a mile after getting out of train say) then scooter probably makes it 1 mile but adds a lot of other variable to it such as unreliability, availability, availability to return etc. I will happily short position in any of these scooter companies meant…

.... actually for a more global perspective, they have been operating in New Zealand. Visiting Christchurch which is a fairly compact flat small city Lime's were the best thing ever to get around on. Living in Auckland, I haven't touched one - hilly, not enough coverage, too large a distance. So they do have their place outside of the hipster bay community :)

I've used them a ton when downtown (and even in North Shore).

Shame there's nowhere close enough of bike paths for stuff like this. Really disappointing.

Plus council took their licence away and gave to local company. That's like a pure corruption, nepotism or protectionism.

The amount of smear articles on NZHerald about Lime was disgusting too. It's either an by delusionally old farts or again - corruption.

Re: Lime shuts in 12 markets, lays off around 100

#300

Post by leetcrew » Fri, Jan 10, 2020, 2:28 AM UTC

lazyasciiart wrote: post #199

jtcruthers wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To get from point A to point B without walking half a mile and waiting 10 minutes for a bus to go a quarter the speed to a stop half a mile from your destination. I'm sure a lot of people want a car so they don't have to expose their groceries or small children to the disgusting mess that is public transportation in the vast majority of (American) cities.

The comment I was responding to was saying everyone wants to own their method of transportation. I'm not asking why you would want to drive - I'm asking why you would choose to own a car if there was an alternate world where all the other cars in the city were available to use on demand.

> I'm asking why you would choose to own a car if there was an alternate world where all the other cars in the city were available to use on demand.

there are a lot of reasons, but here are the two big ones. unlike any rental car I've seen at an avis lot, my car is actually fun to drive. you'll never see a car with a manual transmission for rent in america, unless you go on turo. second, I take much better care of my car than most people. after seeing how people treat vehicles they actually own, I don't want to rent a vehicle that hasn't been thoroughly cleaned and inspected after the previous driver.