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Lime shuts in 12 markets, lays off around 100

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Re: Lime shuts in 12 markets, lays off around 100

#161

Post by Hasz »

the_imp wrote: post #147
Hasz wrote: post #127

This whole model is incredibly, impossibly, flawed. 9/10 times, my net displacement for the day is 0. If my net displacement is zero, I would prefer to own the medium I'm using to move. Bike, car, scooter etc. Only exception is stuff with really high capital costs, like planes and trains, in which case I pay a small fee to avoid owning a railway or airline. For scooters, there are no high capitals costs; the cost of…

The whole model of needing to own your own transportation devices is flawed. 9/10 times, I'm moving from one location with many other people in it to another location with many other people. I would prefer not needing to own any medium in order to move between them, but instead be able to use a public service to do so. Bus, tram, metro, citybike, scooter. I'd really rather not own stuff with really high capital costs…

Ah, but public transit is inherently the slowest option. I have no desire to make 10 stops before I get where I'm going. I also have zero desire to rent my modes, as that encourages literally rent seeking behavior.

Either we need to figure out how to drop off and pickup passengers at speed, or penalize individualized transport that is space inefficient (like cars). Good luck pursuing the latter in the US; punitive measure seem to work elsewhere.

I think the way forward is compact private transport, like bikes, scooters, walking, etc, augmented by a robust mass public transit. Unfortunately, that mix implies a expensive re-configuring of most American cities.

Re: Lime shuts in 12 markets, lays off around 100

#162

Post by jschwartzi »

mdorazio wrote: post #151
the_imp wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The whole model of needing to own your own transportation devices is flawed. 9/10 times, I'm moving from one location with many other people in it to another location with many other people. I would prefer not needing to own any medium in order to move between them, but instead be able to use a public service to do so. Bus, tram, metro, citybike, scooter. I'd really rather not own stuff with really high capital costs…

And, you know, basic financial planning... For the vast majority of people, renting basic unsubsidized transit methods on a daily basis costs far more than owning and operating your own. Good for you if your financial situation allows you to ignore that fact, but it’s rather yuppy bubble thinking to assume that applies to everyone.

Aren't you ignoring the hundreds of billions in public subsidies that your "basic unsubsidized transit methods" enjoy? Cars are expensive and our emphasis on subsidizing car travel at the federal, state, county and city level is an enormous regressive tax on the poorest members of our society for whom $1000 or $5000 is an impossible amount of money.

Re: Lime shuts in 12 markets, lays off around 100

#163

Post by asdff »

TaylorAlexander wrote: post #37

Okay so how do I get a cheap e-scooter? Or will they just trash the still-working hardware?

I see a lot on craigslist for well under retail. Occasionally converted birds that work off the network crop up. That's the cheapest way, $30 on aliexpress then you just find the best looking bird you can.

Re: Lime shuts in 12 markets, lays off around 100

#164

Post by Aperocky »

Hasz wrote: post #127

This whole model is incredibly, impossibly, flawed. 9/10 times, my net displacement for the day is 0. If my net displacement is zero, I would prefer to own the medium I'm using to move. Bike, car, scooter etc. Only exception is stuff with really high capital costs, like planes and trains, in which case I pay a small fee to avoid owning a railway or airline. For scooters, there are no high capitals costs; the cost of…

If nobody ever stole anything, I'd wholeheartedly support that. In fact, I'm willing to shell out 5 times the regular cost for a bike that would never ever be stolen wherever I leave it.

Finding places to park and lock and worry about it not getting stolen is just way too much.

Relevant: I've owned 4 $1000+ bike over the past 10 years, one of which is stolen right outside home, another is almost stolen (moved then found after a frantic search).

Re: Lime shuts in 12 markets, lays off around 100

#165

Post by tempsy »

asdff wrote: post #154
tempsy wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

seems like a lose lose for the industry then. there are a few cities out there that are optimized for scooters year round like San Diego, and the barrier of entry is too low, and then no one wins because there's too much competition.

It's not weather you need, it's infrastructure. Scooters clogging sidewalks is an infrastructure problem. Scooters having to deal with car traffic is an infrastructure problem. The solution to these infrastructure problems are to get a can of paint, make a bike lane, and a scooter parking space. Let the app geofence, and voila, a functional transit network that avoids all the annoyances everyone states ad infinitum u…

not sure what this has anything to do with my previous comment...

i observed San Diego being relatively accommodating to scooters, including created designated parking, on top of being a city is flat and usually sunny and warm - both things that are good for scooter demand, and wondered aloud why Lime still couldn't make it work.

Re: Lime shuts in 12 markets, lays off around 100

#166

Post by wwweston »

Hasz wrote: post #127

This whole model is incredibly, impossibly, flawed. 9/10 times, my net displacement for the day is 0. If my net displacement is zero, I would prefer to own the medium I'm using to move. Bike, car, scooter etc. Only exception is stuff with really high capital costs, like planes and trains, in which case I pay a small fee to avoid owning a railway or airline. For scooters, there are no high capitals costs; the cost of…

This is a bit like saying hotels are obsolete because most of the time you live in the same place and apartments make more sense.

The value proposition of a scooter service is ad hoc last mile transport where you don’t have to have brought the scooter with you to use it.

There may still be issues with the model. It might be that isn’t a demand profile that has the right scale to support much of a business (but could be useful for municipalities to provide, like some do with bikeshares). And I find rideshares are price competitive for last mile stuff (though it’s well known that’s only because ride costs are subsidized with investor cash, so maybe all scooter shares have to do to find their market niche is hold out til that stops). Or maybe most people feel safer with other forms of transport.

But the basic “summon something better than walking without having to carry it with you” idea does make some fundamental sense.

Re: Lime shuts in 12 markets, lays off around 100

#167

Post by logifail »

mumblemumble wrote: post #93
bransonf wrote: post #42

Does anyone actually think this is a profitable market? Electric scooters are expensive, repair and charging is expensive. It’s a seasonal business. Vandalism/abuse is fairly common. In terms of any environmental benefit, I highly suspect more gasoline is being consumed to collect and distribute scooters than the offset of a few last mile transports. I suspect the cost to the consumer would have to double for it to m…

I can see personal e-scooters as being a great alternative to cars for short trips such as commuting less than 5-ish km to work, or taking the kids to school. However, I still think bicycles are vastly preferable. With a pannier rack you get quite a bit more cargo space, and in the winter, the fact that you're physically exerting yourself helps to keep you warm, which makes for a more comfortable and pleasant trip. A…

> I can see personal e-scooters as being a great alternative to cars for [...] taking the kids to school

If it's close to 5km, are you really going to take the kids on scooters?

If it's closer to 1km, how about simply walking? Reality check: we have two (of three) kids in school, their walk to school is just over half a mile, they both walk more or less every single day, in summer and winter and in the rain and the snow.

Oddly they really like walking to school in the snow :)

Re: Lime shuts in 12 markets, lays off around 100

#168

Post by [deleted] »

Hasz wrote: post #161
the_imp wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The whole model of needing to own your own transportation devices is flawed. 9/10 times, I'm moving from one location with many other people in it to another location with many other people. I would prefer not needing to own any medium in order to move between them, but instead be able to use a public service to do so. Bus, tram, metro, citybike, scooter. I'd really rather not own stuff with really high capital costs…

Ah, but public transit is inherently the slowest option. I have no desire to make 10 stops before I get where I'm going. I also have zero desire to rent my modes, as that encourages literally rent seeking behavior. Either we need to figure out how to drop off and pickup passengers at speed, or penalize individualized transport that is space inefficient (like cars). Good luck pursuing the latter in the US; punitive me…

[deleted]

Re: Lime shuts in 12 markets, lays off around 100

#169

Post by robrenaud »

Hasz wrote: post #161
the_imp wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The whole model of needing to own your own transportation devices is flawed. 9/10 times, I'm moving from one location with many other people in it to another location with many other people. I would prefer not needing to own any medium in order to move between them, but instead be able to use a public service to do so. Bus, tram, metro, citybike, scooter. I'd really rather not own stuff with really high capital costs…

Ah, but public transit is inherently the slowest option. I have no desire to make 10 stops before I get where I'm going. I also have zero desire to rent my modes, as that encourages literally rent seeking behavior. Either we need to figure out how to drop off and pickup passengers at speed, or penalize individualized transport that is space inefficient (like cars). Good luck pursuing the latter in the US; punitive me…

> Ah, but public transit is inherently the slowest option.

This isn't true if you are in a dense city with good public transit. This is currently mid day (3 PM), and it's about 30% faster (21 minutes vs 29 minutes) to go from my current location in Manhattan to a bar I enjoy hanging out in Brooklyn via public transit than car, according to Google Maps. It would be even better around rush hour.

Re: Lime shuts in 12 markets, lays off around 100

#170

Post by Koremat6666 »

bransonf wrote: post #42

Does anyone actually think this is a profitable market? Electric scooters are expensive, repair and charging is expensive. It’s a seasonal business. Vandalism/abuse is fairly common. In terms of any environmental benefit, I highly suspect more gasoline is being consumed to collect and distribute scooters than the offset of a few last mile transports. I suspect the cost to the consumer would have to double for it to m…

It is a solely hipster thingy of bay area. The alternative to scooter is walking little more. If the range of your feet is say half a mile (you are willing to walk half a mile after getting out of train say) then scooter probably makes it 1 mile but adds a lot of other variable to it such as unreliability, availability, availability to return etc.

I will happily short position in any of these scooter companies meant for consumers.

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