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Skirting U.S. sanctions, Europeans launch trade mechanism for Iran

reuters.com

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Re: Skirting U.S. sanctions, Europeans launch trade mechanism for Iran

#291

Post by ashelmire »

boomboomsubban wrote: post #207
ashelmire wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you have that backwards. It was another Islamic regime until the west interfered with it. Then it became more progressive due in large part to our interference. Then the Islamists revolted, wanting to regress back to a less progressive state, fearing secularism - which gave us the Islamic state we have today.

This is getting the details incorrect and ignoring a century of interference. Following allied occupation during WWII, Iran was developing a progressive secular government until the US decided to overthrow it as Iran was trying to regain control over it's oil. This led to 25 years of a pro-west regime that can not remotely be considered progressive, followed by the revolution leading to the anti-west regime that also…

The “progressive secular government” was a despotic dictatorship without a free press, where political opponents of Reza were assassinated, and rule was maintained through the military. The progress was progress for the wealthy. Yes, there was foreign interference before that; but it wasn’t better before that either.

Re: Skirting U.S. sanctions, Europeans launch trade mechanism for Iran

#292

Post by jameslk »

danra wrote: post #288
jameslk wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Well, there’s the minor issue of Iran’s totalitarian regime consistently announcing their intent to destroy Israel and devestate the U.S.A, and taking actual steps to support the same. Be wary of the narrative the media feeds you. There is a lot of spin on what is actually said in Iran and what is reported. For example: https://www.quora.com/Did-Irans-former-president-Ahmadinejad... This was later revisited by WaPo…

The first article is mostly an opinion piece on the illegitimacy of Israel as a Jewish state. > So the UN resolution was actually legally compromised and the partition plan was also completely unfair, giving out 70 percent of the land to the immigrant Jews who made up only 30 percent of the population at the time! (See 1947 UN Partition Proposal) > So people only need to use their common sense to see how wrong this r…

Stating that a country should not exist vs stating a country should be wiped off the map are drastically different things.

It's long been known that Iran doesn't recognize Israel as a country, just like Israel doesn't recognize Palestine, so there should be no surprise here.

I really don't understand why others really think the people of Iran have some overarching goal of attacking Israel and the US versus just trying to live their lives. What will that accomplish them?

Iran is a republic and must answer to it's people, which is why they participate in the international community by e.g. following the Non Proliferation Treaty and making trade deals with the rest of the international community. At the end of the day they don't want to be isolated and straddled with hyper inflation from sanctions just like most countries.

Re: Skirting U.S. sanctions, Europeans launch trade mechanism for Iran

#294

Post by fixvzbdjzis »

sadris wrote: post #273
growlist wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Beyond mass scale industrial espionage though, what options does the US realistically have if third party countries/trading blocs create a mechanism to hide the trade? Are they going to sanction the EU? Be interesting to see that one play out. It could basically end up with America blacklisting every country outside the US, thus ending up with itself as its only trading partner..

The US has the largest spying apparatus on the planet. And yes, we will and have block trade with nations trading with Iran. The Twitter feed for our ambassador to Germany documents all of these cases and in every instance, they have folded. The reality is that we are 16t worth of trade and Iran is 440b. They're just not worth it.

That’s really the genius of Trumps foreign policy. He knows the heft of the USA and the spinelessness of EU leaders.

Which really obviates the only real reason to have the EU - combined, all the EU countries are stronger in any field than the US (or China).

That being said the US is a basket case. Sure bully the EU. It’ll work today, maybe ten years from now.

But the US is a failing concern, with a completely rotten and corrupt ruling class that lead ppl to vote for an oversized Twinkee for president. World wide hegemony is done in twenty years.

Re: Skirting U.S. sanctions, Europeans launch trade mechanism for Iran

#295

Post by F_r_k »

dunpeal wrote: post #225
anc84 wrote: post #48

We should have embargos on the US for pursuing a climate change program that destroys the planet.

Do you also advocate for an embargo of China, which pollutes at over twice the rate of the US? How about embargo of the EU, which currently pollutes at roughly the same rate? Did you know that energy production in the US is overall more environmentally friendly than in Germany, for example?

Actually, per capita, the US is worse

Time to get up

Re: Skirting U.S. sanctions, Europeans launch trade mechanism for Iran

#296

Post by BeetleB »

yourbandsucks wrote: post #290
BeetleB wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny, I thought the war was a direct consequence of people voting for Bush. Also thought the war was a direct consequence of more Democrats voting for Bush than the total number of votes Nader got.[0] Democrats favored Bush over Nader. The number of Democrats who voted for Bush exceeded those who voted for Nader five fold . In the last state I lived in, Democrats were far more hostile to 3rd party candidates than Re…

Bush voters got what they wanted. Nader and Stein voters did not. As far as registered Dems voting habitually R.. yeah, that happens, you should see the south.

>Bush voters got what they wanted. Nader and Stein voters did not.

And had Nader voters voted for Gore, they would not have gotten what they wanted either had Gore won. They voted Nader because they did not want Gore.

The only thing I can take away from your comment is that if your candidate lost, you wanted the wrong thing.

>As far as registered Dems voting habitually R.. yeah, that happens, you should see the south.

I do - and I see more Dems responsible for Bush than Nader voters.

Re: Skirting U.S. sanctions, Europeans launch trade mechanism for Iran

#297

Post by yourbandsucks »

BeetleB wrote: post #296
yourbandsucks wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bush voters got what they wanted. Nader and Stein voters did not. As far as registered Dems voting habitually R.. yeah, that happens, you should see the south.

>Bush voters got what they wanted. Nader and Stein voters did not. And had Nader voters voted for Gore, they would not have gotten what they wanted either had Gore won. They voted Nader because they did not want Gore. The only thing I can take away from your comment is that if your candidate lost, you wanted the wrong thing. >As far as registered Dems voting habitually R.. yeah, that happens, you should see the south…

There are different schools of ethics, of course, but utility counts for something.

500k dead Iraqis on account of how that election swung. You sure showed us Democrats.

Re: Skirting U.S. sanctions, Europeans launch trade mechanism for Iran

#298

Post by boomboomsubban »

ashelmire wrote: post #291
boomboomsubban wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is getting the details incorrect and ignoring a century of interference. Following allied occupation during WWII, Iran was developing a progressive secular government until the US decided to overthrow it as Iran was trying to regain control over it's oil. This led to 25 years of a pro-west regime that can not remotely be considered progressive, followed by the revolution leading to the anti-west regime that also…

The “progressive secular government” was a despotic dictatorship without a free press, where political opponents of Reza were assassinated, and rule was maintained through the military. The progress was progress for the wealthy. Yes, there was foreign interference before that; but it wasn’t better before that either.

The progressive secular government was the one under Mosaddegh. Though Reza was the Shah at the time, he did not have the tyrannical power until after the US backed coup, and that period is the pro-west regime I mention.

Re: Skirting U.S. sanctions, Europeans launch trade mechanism for Iran

#299

Post by dragonwriter »

sonnyblarney wrote: post #289
dragonwriter wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Iran's sponsorship of Hezbollah towards attacking Israel is part of their defence strategy? Yes. Particularly, it's central to their defense strategy against Sunni-dominated neighbors.

Since the end of Saddam - there is no entity in the region that has any material ability to pose any real threat to Iran. Moreover, there are no entities with the ability to even 'cause meaningful harm' (ie Israel) without significant reciprocal damage and serious political blowback. So the notion of 'attacking neighbours as part of a defence' doesn't hold any water. Consider that Iran has the open and public positio…

> Since the end of Saddam - there is no entity in the region that has any material ability to pose any real threat to Iran

Not without allying with and outside power like the United States to do so (which, incidentally, was critical to Saddam’s ability to do so); Iran's influence with dissatisfied groups, which its visible active opposition to Israel is a key component of, is key to it's ability to credibly threaten to impose a high cost for that.

It's also, beyond defence against existing local regimes, a key component of it's strategy to prevent the US from securing a stronger foothold in the region to threaten Iran by displacing or subverting an existing regime both by establishing Iran's positive influence and by poisoning the week against the US.

Re: Skirting U.S. sanctions, Europeans launch trade mechanism for Iran

#300

Post by johannes1234321 »

wonthegame wrote: post #168
mont wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you implying that putting some filter over my facebook picture isn't an effective method of protest?

You raised awareness. (Slightly sarcasm)

Not only that, but you are also signalling to your environment that thy are not alone. That's also a key factor in many demonstrations.
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