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The slow death of the electric guitar

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Re: The slow death of the electric guitar

#291

Post by thirdsun »

kaoD wrote: post #81
davnicwil wrote: post #76

I think there are strong parallels with the tech/startup world here: the often-touted quote "The next Bill Gates won't build an operating system, the next Mark Zuckerberg won't build a social network" comes to mind. The next Miles Davies won't play the horn, and the next Jimmy Hendrix won't play guitar. There will always be jazz, there will always be rock n roll, but the level of interest in those styles, particularl…

IMHO there will not be a next Miles Davies or a next Jimmy Hendrix. Or rather, they've already been. The last 40 years of music have experienced such a revolution, we've already had many of those (most of them relegated to obscurity through sheer volume and industrialization of music). But now that I've re-read your comment you've already mentioned the niche-ization :) Hip-hop was a revolutionary genre like rock musi…

> sometimes people forget electronic music is not a genre, just a medium

I was ready to prepare a reply asking you how one could possibly put electronic into a single category until I saw this very important bit. Spot on. In my opinion electronic music isn't in conflict with other musical directions at all. I'd like to think of it as a superset - just pick your preference and you'll surely find it somewhere in electronic music.

> We're living a great age.

Indeed. As an avid music enthusiast and collector I'm enjoying discovering great records, old and new, more than ever. Whether it's browsing Discogs or Bandcamp, to me it feels like a golden age for music discovery, which surely needs a lot of filtering and willingness to dig deeper, but it isn't any less rewarding than it has been in those good old days.

Re: The slow death of the electric guitar

#292

Post by coldtea »

lz400 wrote: post #279
coldtea wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Some of the the other trance stuff is so far below in my opinion that don't belong together. The trance stuff is not that "below" in quality, it's more of the "subjective opinion" thing that's not to taste, if not a reaction to automatically associate "trance == bad". It's not like I linked to some cheesy GOA stuff. If you look at those "trance" pieces, the craftmanship and complexity is obvious, sometimes to the p…

Again, that's what I said, it's subjective. To me infected mushroom and splonge (or however it's spelled) is nice sounding gym music, very little complexity or depth. It sounds like 1000 other trance or rave songs and little else than overlying the same synth patterns over and over. Honestly first time I played with a synth and turned on the arpeggiator I suddenly lost a bit of respect to most dance music out there.…

>Honestly first time I played with a synth and turned on the arpeggiator I suddenly lost a bit of respect to most dance music out there.

I can assure you that Shpongle, for one, are nothing like "gym music" or "1000 other trance or rave songs", and have very much complexity and depth (not to mention compositional chops). And it was my younger brother (a conservatory artist and professional orchestra player) that pointed me at them, and he very much admires their rhythmic, melodic and harmonic complexity. It's nothing like assorted arpeggiator patterns above a kick drum, and I think most of your reservations is because of some response against cheesy trance which is totally misapplied here.

(In fact even when most people legitimately identify cheesy trance -- which most of it is anyway -- they are still totally fine for "serious" techno works that have 1/10th the complexity and depth. Because, supposedely, one is "party music" and the other is somber "cerebral" stuff that's Pitchfork friendly).

Autechre definitely have a unique aesthetic but all of their music is mostly tinkering and happy accidents (they are non-musicians in the traditional sense), and all the complexity is "accidental" complexity triggered from merging layers of experiments.

Re: The slow death of the electric guitar

#293

Post by thirdsun »

agumonkey wrote: post #87
kaoD wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMHO there will not be a next Miles Davies or a next Jimmy Hendrix. Or rather, they've already been. The last 40 years of music have experienced such a revolution, we've already had many of those (most of them relegated to obscurity through sheer volume and industrialization of music). But now that I've re-read your comment you've already mentioned the niche-ization :) Hip-hop was a revolutionary genre like rock musi…

I don't listen to much electronic music, but I find no subtleties or sensitivity in what I hear. I understand that dismissing the new for no other reason is useless but I just don't feel it.

I'm pretty sure you're missing the good stuff, hidden a under a sea of mediocrity. That can easily happen as there's simply so much music out there.

Re: The slow death of the electric guitar

#294

Post by kinleyd »

wyclif wrote: post #285
kinleyd wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And back in the late 80s when Les Paul sales were flagging, out stepped a young Slash. And Gibson sales took off for another two decades and a half.

Even though Slash wasn't playing a Les Paul then (it was a LP copy)!

Yes, indeed! It was a great move by Gibson to get Slash on board after he broke out.

Re: The slow death of the electric guitar

#295

Post by lz400 »

coldtea wrote: post #292
lz400 wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Again, that's what I said, it's subjective. To me infected mushroom and splonge (or however it's spelled) is nice sounding gym music, very little complexity or depth. It sounds like 1000 other trance or rave songs and little else than overlying the same synth patterns over and over. Honestly first time I played with a synth and turned on the arpeggiator I suddenly lost a bit of respect to most dance music out there.…

> Honestly first time I played with a synth and turned on the arpeggiator I suddenly lost a bit of respect to most dance music out there. I can assure you that Shpongle, for one, are nothing like "gym music" or "1000 other trance or rave songs", and have very much complexity and depth (not to mention compositional chops). And it was my younger brother (a conservatory artist and professional orchestra player) that poi…

Again, this is opinions but I just disagree. I listened to the links you pointed and bit more about spongle. They sound nice, I don't dislike it I will probably listen to them again some time when I want some groove going on, they are definitely on the upper tier of trance/rave stuff. But they are straightforward, low brow stuff to me. Nothing against that, just not in the same league as things like Autechre, Orbital, Aphex Twin, Massive Attack, Mouse on Mars, etc.

Autechre have moved into very experimental stuff lately, which I don't dig as much as their early stuff even though one has to admire their coherence and attitude. They are very serious and spend a lot of time trying new stuff. Their early stuff had the perfect amount of glitchy noises and melody for me. Nothing accidental about those records, they were perfectly planned and executed. Even the stuff they do know I think it's very deliberate even if it's a lot more abstract and difficult to listen to.

Talking about musicians in the traditional sense is usually nonsensical in modern music. What's a musician in the traditional sense? a classical pianist? half of the best punk bands could barely play, still made good songs. Many electronic musicians can't play a traditional instrument, is that what you mean "not in the traditional sense"? Their instrument is the computer. If you claim that they don't know music because they don't have a classical degree or can do guitar solos, it's nonsense at this point.

Re: The slow death of the electric guitar

#296

Post by thirdsun »

agumonkey wrote: post #124
kaoD wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find your links completely soulless and unimaginative (mostly rehashing 80s black music) so to each their own I guess :) Not that I dislike them, they're just... plain (to me). I really like Todd Terje, which you linked, but I wouldn't call it subtle in any way (it's just generic italo-disco updated to sound like 21st century dance music). It's something I'd play to dance on a night out, not to listen and enjoy as…

I do have very strong funk roots, but I've walked extensively into prog, fusion, and recently classical music (which any sophisticated piece of jazz and fusion will go into once they leave the groove sections a bit aside). Terje beat is subtle, other than that it's as simple as it can get. It does influence my needs though, Funk, and Jazz have a swing, a tension that I often need in music, unless it's displaced by cl…

Have you tried Floating Points? "Eleania" is a beautiful, rather quiet electronic / jazz mixture and one of my favorite albums in recent years:

- https://floatingpointsluakabop.bandcamp.com/album/elaenia

- https://www.discogs.com/Floating-Points-Elaenia/master/90855...

Another suggestion is Azymuth, a brazilian cult band that blends funk, latin, fusion and electronic music. They have a very long discography but their most recent album is a very good starting point:

- https://azymuth.bandcamp.com/album/f-nix

- https://www.discogs.com/Azymuth-F%C3%AAnix/master/1094986

Let's stay in brazil: Music From Memory, a fantastic re-issue label, recently released a fantastic compilation that collects brazilian electronic, avant-garde music from the late 70s to early 90s. It's more on the experimental, difficult end of the spectrum but very rewarding with repeated listenings:

- https://music-from-memory.bandcamp.com/album/outro-tempo-ele...

- https://www.discogs.com/Various-Outro-Tempo-Electronic-And-C...

Re: The slow death of the electric guitar

#297

Post by Broken_Hippo »

agumonkey wrote: post #113
kaoD wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could it be that you're uneducated (which is fine, there's so much music produced nowadays that's hard to be educated in all niches) and listening to shitty electronic music that the mainstream industry is advertising endlessly to recycle the same formula again and again for cheap gains? Similar to shitty music like "The Archies - Sugar Sugar" or anything from The Ramones. There's an endless stream of shit music from…

How many people in the electronic genre could play Bach ? I mind no medium, no genre, nothing at all. If you give me something musical, even tapping on bamboo, or an old DX7 (see this demo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3rrjQtQe5A , the pianos samples are dense, and the harmonies aren't dull) synth, I'd welcome it. The link you gave are not bad, but they lack soul, feel, weight. It's a common thing in electronic mu…

How many people in the electronic genre could play Bach?

I'm sure there are many. That sort of thing doesn't generally make it to the popular circles. The first one I thought of was an artist named Igorrr. It is quite possibly not your style, as some of the stuff might be difficult to listen to.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PmUQU8Mk4o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKp30C3MwVk

Re: The slow death of the electric guitar

#298

Post by domdib »

SwellJoe wrote: post #288
iainmerrick wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I partly disagree. Access to endless information is great, on balance, but other things are equally important: hands-on tuition, peer feedback, competition. I think about folks like Lorde; she was writing fully formed, mature, and extremely competent, music at a ridiculously young age. I doubt it could have happened without tech. Kate Bush was 19 when she released Wuthering Heights (and had been writing for years bef…

"Kate Bush was 19 when she released Wuthering Heights (and had been writing for years before that)." I've been comparing Lorde to Kate Bush for ages now, so I agree with you on that comparison (and I'm a huge Stevie Wonder fan, including his childhood songs..."Up Tight", recorded when he was 15, is among my favorites to holler along with while cooking dinner). But...there's gonna be a lot more of those kids. I'd bet…

Check out Jacob Collier too. Incredibly talented mult-instrumentalist and singer.

Re: The slow death of the electric guitar

#299

Post by ThomPete »

SwellJoe wrote: post #284
KhanMahGretsch wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely, content matters, and so does context. Take the solo in Living Colour's "Cult of Personality", a gibberish mess of seemingly random notes; he abuses that instrument like it owes him a lot of money! It works perfectly in the song however, so I suppose it's all a matter of taste. p.s. Aja is an absolute classic :)

Here's the problem with talking about guitar solos, especially saying, "I hate guitar solos, in the general case": Everyone immediately thinks of their favorite guitar solo, and gets defensive. How am I supposed to argue against a Vernon Reid solo? Vernon Reid is a brilliant musician. I've loved his playing since I was a kid. He was one of my earliest musical heroes, and unlike a lot of musicians I liked when I was a…

But thats true about almost anything that the people who know how to do something are miniscule compared to those who doesn't. Whether it's design, UX, business, entrepreneurship, football, tennis etc. Hardly an argument for anything.

So you are really back to what you like not an actual argument against guitar solos.

Re: The slow death of the electric guitar

#300

Post by thatwebdude »

When I was teaching guitar, the overarching trend I saw again and again, from the South the Midwest (so not a complete profile, but one large enough) was an interest in playing guitar but no real influences to latch onto.

My first question to a prospective student was "who are some of your favorite bands?". With enough blank stares I changed it to "what is some of your favorite music" with equal stares.

Kids (and adults) want to play guitar, but the initial excitement and rush comes and goes fast as they have no real guitar music to get into anymore.

Pop music has changed, and that's fine. It gets hard to find a memorable or "cool" guitar part in pop music. The last one I can think of is "Party in the USA", and that, of course, is subjective (and quite old now).

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