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The slow death of the electric guitar

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Re: The slow death of the electric guitar

#111

Post by barrkel »

SwellJoe wrote: post #53
tnecniv wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When I started to learn guitar several decades ago, I would learn guitar solos off of records by slowing them down to 16 rpm (old turntables could do that) and moving the needle back repeatedly to listen to tricky phrases over and over again. It was frustrating, time consuming, and hell on on the records. This made you a much better player than just looking up a video or tab though. >I would like to see guitar-orie…

"This made you a much better player than just looking up a video or tab though." I disagree. Not about the "just looking up a tab" bit, but about the general gist of your argument that "the hard way teaches you better". Easier access to knowledge is always better when you want to learn things, and the internet is absolutely the best access to knowledge that has ever existed. I've been playing guitar since long before…

I agree with most of what you wrote, but for one aspect that's easy to overlook.

Easy access to information is not always better. A number of reasons: information had easily isn't valued; information that requires effort teaches determination and self sufficiency that will always be required when you get to the limit of easily available info; an abundance of info can be daunting (information overload) and demoralising. Finally, there's less sense of achievement when you e.g. read about something rather than figure it out, and a lower probability of innovation from not knowing the current "best practices".

I still think easy access is better, but mostly because I'm grown up with hard won learning skills. I'm less certain that easy access develops the right kinds of skills. Primarily because not everyone is a genius with exceptional talent; some of us need skills too.

Re: The slow death of the electric guitar

#112

Post by kinleyd »

d--b wrote: post #27

I think it's a bit naive to believe that guitar heroes can bring the interest for the guitar back. People look back at the guitar heroes time with a nostalgic fondness for a time that doesn't exist anymore. This was already visible in Wayne's world and became more than obvious in school of rock. Guitar-heavy rock has become a geek genre. Pop has moved on. There are obviously various reasons for this: 1. Technological…

Isn't it the heroes in any field that inspire others to take it up? Or are you saying that there can never be another guitar hero again who will be good enough to inspire another generation? That would be naive, wouldn't it, considering how awesome the electric guitar is?

Re: The slow death of the electric guitar

#113

Post by agumonkey »

kaoD wrote: post #90
agumonkey wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't listen to much electronic music, but I find no subtleties or sensitivity in what I hear. I understand that dismissing the new for no other reason is useless but I just don't feel it.

Could it be that you're uneducated (which is fine, there's so much music produced nowadays that's hard to be educated in all niches) and listening to shitty electronic music that the mainstream industry is advertising endlessly to recycle the same formula again and again for cheap gains? Similar to shitty music like "The Archies - Sugar Sugar" or anything from The Ramones. There's an endless stream of shit music from…

How many people in the electronic genre could play Bach ? I mind no medium, no genre, nothing at all. If you give me something musical, even tapping on bamboo, or an old DX7 (see this demo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3rrjQtQe5A, the pianos samples are dense, and the harmonies aren't dull) synth, I'd welcome it.

The link you gave are not bad, but they lack soul, feel, weight. It's a common thing in electronic music, sampled drumbeats, tiny vocals, steady and fragile melodic rhythm.

ps: other electronic sounds that I found a bit more telling

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-k7QhOVl4M https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kgGNZABDqZA

These two are simplistic but have a strong rhythmic backbone and are surprinsgly twisted at times https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4r_94EvDZ4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebjXsc0UjdQ

I'd love to keep on but I have to leave, I'll be back in an hour

Re: The slow death of the electric guitar

#114

Post by agumonkey »

coldtea wrote: post #110
agumonkey wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't listen to much electronic music, but I find no subtleties or sensitivity in what I hear. I understand that dismissing the new for no other reason is useless but I just don't feel it.

> I don't listen to much electronic music, but I find no subtleties or sensitivity in what I hear. Probably because you don't listen much. There are subtleties in electronic music pieces that go several levels beyond jazz even -- in timbre, rhythm, harmony etc. Compared to something like 70s rock, there's no contest even. You wont find those in EDM charts though.

Send me names, I'd gladly feed my ears with beyond jazz subtleties. I'm all for the musical experience, as long as it's well done.

But to the point, the thread is about mainstream guitar playing going away. So I was talking about mainstream electro. Surely there are deeply satisfying electronic music out there if you dig.

Re: The slow death of the electric guitar

#115

Post by cyberferret »

coldtea wrote: post #103
cyberferret wrote: post #32

> “John Mayer?” he asks. “You don’t see a bunch of kids emulating John Mayer and listening to him and wanting to pick up a guitar because of him.” Sorry, but my 17 year old son was so inspired by Mayer about 5 years ago that he invested a LOT of time learning how to play guitar and sing like him, and other artists with similar styles. [0] He is now building quite a steady music career even while finishing high school…

> Sorry, but my 17 year old son was so inspired by Mayer about 5 years ago that he invested a LOT of time learning how to play guitar and sing like him, and other artists with similar styles. I'm sure we can find kids into Foxtrot too, but I don't think we'll see a Foxtrot revival. Emulating Clapton, or Hendrix, or Page, etc was a mass phenomenon, which is what the "bunch" alludes to. The last to inspire anything of…

As fragmented as the music world is now, there is still capacity for a groundswell movement I believe.

In keeping with the 'guitar sales are dying' theme - back in the 80's Fender Jazzmasters, Jaguars and Mustangs were pariah guitars. They were nothing more than the oddly shaped relics from the 'surf music' craze of the 50's and 60's.

Then Kurt Cobain played one on stage in the 90's. And not played like a guitar god either, but all of a sudden, the Jaguar and Mustang offset shaped guitars exploded into popularity again, across more than just grunge bands. My son I mentioned above actually plays a J Mascis Jazzmaster as his main stage electric guitar.

On another note, I really wish I could find the thread on a popular guitar forum that I participated in about 7 or 8 years ago. Back then I predicted that the vinyl market would have a small, if temporary blip again. This was before the whole Hipster fad became mainstream too. I was literally laughed out of that thread by other members claiming, similarly as you did in your reply, that vinyl was about as relevant as be-bop or spandex clad lead singers in music.

Well, we are sitting in the middle of a vinyl resurgence right now. It will never reach the numbers of the heady days, but there definitely is a renewed interest out there. I couldn't believe it last month when I went to my local electronics and whitegoods store and there were as many turntables in the HiFi section as boom boxes and bluetooth speaker systems.

Re: The slow death of the electric guitar

#116

Post by manmal »

d--b wrote: post #27

I think it's a bit naive to believe that guitar heroes can bring the interest for the guitar back. People look back at the guitar heroes time with a nostalgic fondness for a time that doesn't exist anymore. This was already visible in Wayne's world and became more than obvious in school of rock. Guitar-heavy rock has become a geek genre. Pop has moved on. There are obviously various reasons for this: 1. Technological…

Nickleback is a good example of a band that keeps the guitar alive. Yes, they don't play ANY soli (or do they?), but they get serious airtime and I haven't heard kids call them old-fashioned..

Re: The slow death of the electric guitar

#117

Post by douche »

You actually have to practice and have some skill to play guitar... not to mention finding a bassist, and an actual, real-life drummer, at minimum, for a full band.

Compared to dicking around with a laptop and calling yourself a DJ, or slapping some drum loops and autotune on top of some vocals, rock music does require some actual work.

Re: The slow death of the electric guitar

#118

Post by kaoD »

agumonkey wrote: post #113
kaoD wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could it be that you're uneducated (which is fine, there's so much music produced nowadays that's hard to be educated in all niches) and listening to shitty electronic music that the mainstream industry is advertising endlessly to recycle the same formula again and again for cheap gains? Similar to shitty music like "The Archies - Sugar Sugar" or anything from The Ramones. There's an endless stream of shit music from…

How many people in the electronic genre could play Bach ? I mind no medium, no genre, nothing at all. If you give me something musical, even tapping on bamboo, or an old DX7 (see this demo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3rrjQtQe5A , the pianos samples are dense, and the harmonies aren't dull) synth, I'd welcome it. The link you gave are not bad, but they lack soul, feel, weight. It's a common thing in electronic mu…

I find your links completely soulless and unimaginative (mostly rehashing 80s black music) so to each their own I guess :) Not that I dislike them, they're just... plain (to me).

I really like Todd Terje, which you linked, but I wouldn't call it subtle in any way (it's just generic italo-disco updated to sound like 21st century dance music). It's something I'd play to dance on a night out, not to listen and enjoy as art.

> It's a common thing in electronic music, sampled drumbeats

Well, both links feature live drum beats so... ;) Amongst other instruments (Shpongle's flute is analog, Younger Brother features analog instruments both at the studio and live).

Here's Younger Brother rehearsing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIYH6SXdjE0

---

As I expected it's a matter of taste (as expected) more than medium.

I can see you like funk influenced music full of harmonic complexity. You might like some 70s electronic music I guess? Try https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LF438wbUTI (Beaver & Krause, pioneers on electronic music). There are literally too many productions to chose from until I hit the key that tingles your own personal taste :P

We'll never agree but I'm glad we exchanged opinions (and I'll keep an eye on that Redinho guy!)

Re: The slow death of the electric guitar

#119

Post by manmal »

cyberferret wrote: post #32

> “John Mayer?” he asks. “You don’t see a bunch of kids emulating John Mayer and listening to him and wanting to pick up a guitar because of him.” Sorry, but my 17 year old son was so inspired by Mayer about 5 years ago that he invested a LOT of time learning how to play guitar and sing like him, and other artists with similar styles. [0] He is now building quite a steady music career even while finishing high school…

You envy him for the available content and equipment, but he should envy kids in the 80s of the ease with which you could build a well-paying career if you played well. Nowadays you better produce songs on your laptop because the money earned with streaming might not suffice for 5 people. The trajectory of what is possible is just way flatter.
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