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The slow death of the electric guitar

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Re: The slow death of the electric guitar

#31

It's ironic that young people are losing interest in the guitar at a time when there is an amazingly enormous amount of resources freely available for learning it. When I started to learn guitar several decades ago, I would learn guitar solos off of records by slowing them down to 16 rpm (old turntables could do that) and moving the needle back repeatedly to listen to tricky phrases over and over again. It was frustr…

> When I started to learn guitar several decades ago, I would learn guitar solos off of records by slowing them down to 16 rpm (old turntables could do that) and moving the needle back repeatedly to listen to tricky phrases over and over again. It was frustrating, time consuming, and hell on on the records.

This made you a much better player than just looking up a video or tab though.

>I would like to see guitar-oriented rock and roll make a comeback. The heavy metal subculture is thriving without any mainstream radio airplay to speak of, but aside from that, there's just not that much going on.

> If I see a local rock band play in a bar these days, about 80% of the time it will be all middle-aged men who have been playing for decades. Some of them are even retirement age.

Sounds to me like you aren't looking very hard. In my city, I can find current, young rock bands playing at multiple venues weekly. Some of my favorite albums have come out since 2010.

Bar bands are dying because the economics don't make sense anymore for bar owners. Why dedicate a ton of space to 3-5 people with tons of equipment when you can just get one guy with a laptop. The latter is probably cheaper, too. In my area, most people don't go to bars for music anyway outside of places like dedicated jazz or piano bars.

Re: The slow death of the electric guitar

#32
> “John Mayer?” he asks. “You don’t see a bunch of kids emulating John Mayer and listening to him and wanting to pick up a guitar because of him.”

Sorry, but my 17 year old son was so inspired by Mayer about 5 years ago that he invested a LOT of time learning how to play guitar and sing like him, and other artists with similar styles. [0]

He is now building quite a steady music career even while finishing high school (he was booked for 3 gigs just this weekend).

He is also interested in past guitar heroes such as Eddie Van Halen, Mark Knopfler, Angus Young, Andy Summers etc. and spends a lot of time going through 'older' stuff to learn more.

While he has a lot of natural ability, there is no arguing that it takes a LOT of hard work. He practices for a minimum of 2 hours a day - sometimes even up to 4 or 5 hours, not counting gigging time. We often have to call him away from his guitar to do school work or eat.

I envy the time he lives in though - I started playing when I was 15, back in the early 80's and it was really difficult to find decent gear, and the only way to learn anything new was to try and figure it out by ear or find someone else who knew to teach you. Nowadays, the proliferation of Youtube and other online learning resources, the huge selection of reasonably priced gear, and things like software and hardware modelling amps mean players can dial in ANY sound they want under any situation. Unheard of in my time.

It just needs kids who are interested enough to turn it into their passion.

[0] - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJK-R3HGG09uGBRDs7fhpZw

Re: The slow death of the electric guitar

#33
post #18
post #13

rock n' roll will never die as Neil Young put it. Its just taking a break and going to hell to reorganize. Rock is here to stay and is out of fashion now but the cycle will come back and just like clothing fashion 20-30 years from now a new wave will happen.

We've now had over 30 years of house music. They won.

I'm pretty sure southern hip-hop has officially 'won' [1].

[1] http://www.npr.org/sections/therecord/2017/03/06/518780898/f...

Re: The slow death of the electric guitar

#34
I think the trend will continue down for guitar playing, and for all musical instruments.

My theory is based on the fact that learning to play well is difficult and time consuming.

Popular music is by and large not the product of humans, moving muscles, energizing mass, thus generating sound waves. "Sounds" that we hear in pop music are in main generated digitally, usually with software instruments, in a computer.

Pop music is still uses the more traditional aspects of music composition, but only as a component of an ever expanding sonic palette.

Modern production is based increasingly on the ability to manipulate "sound" in a computer, and assemble it into listenable compositions.

The human voice remains one elements that is still generated by biological processes. But even the voice is subjected to increasing amounts of digital manipulation.

Learning to produce music in the modern style is also difficult, though in a different way from learning to play an instrument. Specifically, it is not a realtime process.

Given the finite amount of time and resources available to individuals, especially young people, it is inevitable that learning more modern pop production will be at the expense of investing in the extensive training needed to perform music in realtime.

This is compounded by the fact that the economic weight of the music industry is in the world of pop music, meaning the various strains of digitally created music. This is where the money comes in. People that want to make of a living doing music will increasingly need to be proficient in modern music production.

This creates a "virtuous cycle" which directs more resources towards this aspect of music, and a "vicious cycle" towards the traditional aspects of musical performance.

There are actually two significant technological forces that enable this structural shift in music creation. The first was the advent of recording, and mass distribution of music. It broke music away from the need to have human performers, playing in realtime, to hear music. This dramatically lowered the marginal cost of experiencing music.

The twin forces of time shifting and mass replication were turbocharged with the advent of digital audio. This, combined with the ever increased use of digital manipulated in music generation, amounts to a "singularity" in humans relationship with music. A line has been crossed that is permanent, it can never be uncrossed.

To be sure (ha ha), music will continue to be performed (and listened to) by live musicians, indefinitely. But it will be in the context of decreasing cultural influences.

The financial resources needed to support the creation of skilled musicians will continue to dwindle. This effect has been ongoing for decades in the world of orchestral music; now it has come for the world of all performed music.

One might think, what about live music? Won't there always be a demand for live, performed music? I don't think so. Or rather, it will continue the dramatic decline illustrated in the article by guitar sales.

Audiences seeme to respond just as well to shows that use essentially pre-recorded music. As long as there is a show of some kind, most of the music consuming population will not mind if the music heard at a show is "canned".

This makes me a bit sad, but ultimately the endeavors of human creativity will march on, inexorably charting new paths using the astonishing arsenal of software applications that are available these days at a very low cost.

Re: The slow death of the electric guitar

#35

> “John Mayer?” he asks. “You don’t see a bunch of kids emulating John Mayer and listening to him and wanting to pick up a guitar because of him.” Sorry, but my 17 year old son was so inspired by Mayer about 5 years ago that he invested a LOT of time learning how to play guitar and sing like him, and other artists with similar styles. [0] He is now building quite a steady music career even while finishing high school…

That's incredible, thanks for sharing!

Re: The slow death of the electric guitar

#36
Not necessarily saying the electric guitar isn't dying, but the economic argument isn't very convincing. There are a lot of guitars in the world now and we keep making more, consequently people aren't prepared to spend as much money on them. The people who are willing and able to spend $1000 on a new Les Paul or USA Strat are an aging generation for sure, but maybe their grandchildren are just playing guitars that cost $200 instead? You can get a pretty decent guitar for peanuts these days - I bought a perfectly playable strat copy for like $40 (actually 30GBP) off Ebay a while ago, with a (small, tinny) amp thrown in.

I've been expecting the death of the electric guitar since the '80s, but it seems surprisingly resilient.

Edit: In addition, although I'm incredibly old and don't claim to have my finger on the pulse of the zeitgeist, it seems to me that in the post White Stripes era playing shitty second user equipment is widely considered cooler than playing expensive new equipment.

Re: The slow death of the electric guitar

#37

Slash was the last famous guitarist. There's your proof that guitarists used to be a big deal, but are no more. http://www.rollingstone.com/music/lists/100-greatest-guitari...

A more apt description would be "Slash was the last famous guitarist that non guitar players would probably ever remember being mentioned in the popular press".

It's along the same lines of saying "McDonalds is the fast food most people have heard of" or "BASIC is the most common programming language that everyone has heard of, so it must be the best".

Within each sub-culture, there are dedicated fans that go deeper and have a set of idols that they look up to. I can readily identify fellow guitar players (AND the genre of music they prefer) by mentioning names like Joe Bonamassa, Doyle Bramhall II, Brad Paisley etc. Blank stares just mean that the person is not involved in the guitar world at all. Someone who gets excited when I mention Paisley, I know is into the pop/country stuff.

I've heard people write off John Mayer as a 'non guitarist' even on guitar forums, but when I show them this clip [0] and tell them to come back to me when they have mastered playing that particular off beat riff and sing the melody at the same time, like he does, then I will gladly pay them $10. My money has been safe in my wallet for years.

[0] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_DfQC5qHhbo

Re: The slow death of the electric guitar

#39
post #27

I think it's a bit naive to believe that guitar heroes can bring the interest for the guitar back. People look back at the guitar heroes time with a nostalgic fondness for a time that doesn't exist anymore. This was already visible in Wayne's world and became more than obvious in school of rock. Guitar-heavy rock has become a geek genre. Pop has moved on. There are obviously various reasons for this: 1. Technological…

I think you're missing the point. The question is certainly not whether the guitar heroes of old inspire new generations to the same extent it did us. Sure pop has moved on from the image of hairy flashy axe wielding fairies shredding away while 3 other dudes prance around. But that's fashion. It has little to do with the instrument and everything to do with fads and marketing. Also you can sure as hell not ruin dancing with a solo (Black Sabbath, Led zep, Red Fang more recently!?), the issue is that there are too many fretboard wankers who pushed technical style for technical style's sake. That is what I hope the next generation of metal/rock guitarists will break away from.

Keep it heavy, and keep it coming \m/ (sorry hn)

Re: The slow death of the electric guitar

#40
Gibson and Fender are like the companies that sell exercise equipment: lots of people buy one with the best of intentions, and three to six months later it's collecting dust in the basement.

It's not hard to see why. Playing music is hard. The ratio of effort to reward is just terrible. I totally understand why people quit.

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