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Loops is a federated, open-source TikTok

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Re: Loops is a federated, open-source TikTok

#281

Post by listic »

fasbiner wrote: post #252

This looks interesting, but if you don't have creepy and opaque admin controls and algorthimic manipulation that create a thousand little tinpot Larry Ellisons, you should highlight that. Because that's why no one I know uses Mastadon.

Could you please explain exactly why you think no one you know uses Mastodon? I'm trying to figure it out. I, personally am hesitant to use it first and foremost because Mastodon (and many of its lesser known alternatives) is a variant of micro-blogging (I'm appalled how extending character limit beyond 500 apparently counts as a feature in Fediverse!)

Re: Loops is a federated, open-source TikTok

#282

Post by [deleted] »

wiseowise wrote: post #253
boriskourt wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TikTok has ~1.59 billion global active users, if you go to Cambodia you will have a hard time not seeing it in the wild. It is painful that this is still seen as some teen trend. People enjoy short form video, people should be able to enjoy things they like with dignity , which is in extremely short supply on algorithm and advert driven social media. Loops is nice because it isn't algorithm oriented. You can follow f…

> People enjoy short form video, people should be able to enjoy things they like with dignity, which is in extremely short supply on algorithm and advert driven social media. People “enjoy” heroin, crack cocaine, fentanyl too, should they “enjoy” them with dignity too?

[deleted]

Re: Loops is a federated, open-source TikTok

#283

Post by lynx97 »

wiseowise wrote: post #253
boriskourt wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TikTok has ~1.59 billion global active users, if you go to Cambodia you will have a hard time not seeing it in the wild. It is painful that this is still seen as some teen trend. People enjoy short form video, people should be able to enjoy things they like with dignity , which is in extremely short supply on algorithm and advert driven social media. Loops is nice because it isn't algorithm oriented. You can follow f…

> People enjoy short form video, people should be able to enjoy things they like with dignity, which is in extremely short supply on algorithm and advert driven social media. People “enjoy” heroin, crack cocaine, fentanyl too, should they “enjoy” them with dignity too?

> heroin ... with dignity

That discussion is already over since, what... 20 years? Heroin addicts get their fix from the state, with tax payer money, in many many countries these days. I can see the line waiting in front of my pharmacy every day in the morning...

Re: Loops is a federated, open-source TikTok

#284

Post by pjc50 »

CodeCompost wrote: post #278

I briefly hosted a Lemmy server on my machine just to see how it works and my god never again. The pictures that were automatically synced to my machine did not only make me lose faith in humanity, but it made me shut down and wipe my machine immediately because I was terrified that some of those images would land me some serious jail time. So if you choose to host something like this, be very aware that there are so…

.. ah, yes, "completely unmoderated free speech system that supports images" does mean "may contain CSAM". Heck, even Instagram had a horrific "mirror world" incident where the moderation bit got flipped on a number of images which ordinary users were exposed to.

I wouldn't run any kind of publishing system for anons myself. It's potentially valuable for an actual social group though.

Re: Loops is a federated, open-source TikTok

#285

Post by gverrilla »

wiseowise wrote: post #253
boriskourt wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TikTok has ~1.59 billion global active users, if you go to Cambodia you will have a hard time not seeing it in the wild. It is painful that this is still seen as some teen trend. People enjoy short form video, people should be able to enjoy things they like with dignity , which is in extremely short supply on algorithm and advert driven social media. Loops is nice because it isn't algorithm oriented. You can follow f…

> People enjoy short form video, people should be able to enjoy things they like with dignity, which is in extremely short supply on algorithm and advert driven social media. People “enjoy” heroin, crack cocaine, fentanyl too, should they “enjoy” them with dignity too?

Yes.

Re: Loops is a federated, open-source TikTok

#286

Post by balamatom »

wiseowise wrote: post #253
boriskourt wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TikTok has ~1.59 billion global active users, if you go to Cambodia you will have a hard time not seeing it in the wild. It is painful that this is still seen as some teen trend. People enjoy short form video, people should be able to enjoy things they like with dignity , which is in extremely short supply on algorithm and advert driven social media. Loops is nice because it isn't algorithm oriented. You can follow f…

> People enjoy short form video, people should be able to enjoy things they like with dignity, which is in extremely short supply on algorithm and advert driven social media. People “enjoy” heroin, crack cocaine, fentanyl too, should they “enjoy” them with dignity too?

I love love love how you deny people both their enjoyment and their dignity. You are a truly moral person; I hope you have numerous progeny.

Re: Loops is a federated, open-source TikTok

#287

Post by bschwindHN »

pyaamb wrote: post #266
bschwindHN wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about you just _don't_ contribute to the slop pile? Also, that sounds like a machine that generates self-reinforcing echo chambers.

I would argue that: 1. "slop" doesn't come from just AI. Take a look at the headlines on your daily newsfeed. Carefully crafted by humans. 2. This is an application of AI that serves human values by what it attempts to preserve.

Some humans produce slop sometimes, but AI produces slop basically always. I don't see that as an argument to just add more into the system because humans do sometimes.

Your application also doesn't "serve human values". It just statistically gives someone content it thinks they'll want to hear/read, and hides content that might make them uncomfortable or question their own views. A self-reinforcing echo chamber, like I said.

I know AI is all the rage and everyone is trying to come up with something actually useful for it, but this isn't it.

Re: Loops is a federated, open-source TikTok

#288

Post by Moldoteck »

jdeisenberg wrote: post #231
raincole wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The parent comment explained why they dismissed this in clear language. Yours is a random weird comparison to Dropbox (how is it related to this post? Which side is Dropbox, TikTok or Loops?)

I think this is a reference to when Dropbox was first introduced. I recall posts dismissing it as “just something that could be done as well with a bash script”.

And who is dropbox in this situation? A federated implementation for me looks more like the bash script while tiktok would be the dbox

Re: Loops is a federated, open-source TikTok

#289

Post by eitland »

maelito wrote: post #268

Not sure how the fediverse that missed the Twitter alternative because of its design complexity, will get the video market, a lot less geek.

Let me present my take on why the federated alternatives struggle to replace X:

Twitter didn't succeed because it was a particularly good solution - it really isn't. It succeeded purely on the back of the network effect.

When every open-source alternative simply copies the existing restrictions without adding any unique value, why would users switch to an equally flawed version where none of the accounts they actually want to follow are?

Re: Loops is a federated, open-source TikTok

#290

Post by balamatom »

pjc50 wrote: post #284
CodeCompost wrote: post #278

I briefly hosted a Lemmy server on my machine just to see how it works and my god never again. The pictures that were automatically synced to my machine did not only make me lose faith in humanity, but it made me shut down and wipe my machine immediately because I was terrified that some of those images would land me some serious jail time. So if you choose to host something like this, be very aware that there are so…

.. ah, yes, "completely unmoderated free speech system that supports images" does mean "may contain CSAM". Heck, even Instagram had a horrific "mirror world" incident where the moderation bit got flipped on a number of images which ordinary users were exposed to. I wouldn't run any kind of publishing system for anons myself. It's potentially valuable for an actual social group though.

>I wouldn't run any kind of publishing system for anons myself. It's potentially valuable for an actual social group though.

That's pretty much how it works on the federated Internet.

There are large open-access services run by communities with sufficient moderation capacity (to not get themselves nuked, anyway.) Turns out many "impossibilities" are trivial when you're not trying to abuse 1 billion active users at the same time through the power of their own (distr)actions - but instead you are simply trying to run a board for messages.

And then there plenty of private servers, where publishing either is by invite, or does not have outsized reach in the first place. Those also defederate each other a lot, and many don't show you stuff from the big publics at all.

There've been "bad people out there" always (or at least that's what the "good people in there" have been broadcasting, for about as long as I remember). The design/engineering problem here is how to figure out and deploy a relational dynamic that keeps hostiles at a safe distance.

The practical problem stems from a technicality of how federation currently works: to display content from other services to your users, you have to mirror it on your storage.

This mode of federating hazardous data is a real problem, and also it's exactly what some cheap-ass subcontractor of current-gen social media incumbents would be doing if said incumbents had the amount of good sense that they've demonstrated having (see e.g. https://erinkissane.com/meta-in-myanmar-full-series). Yeah cuz... it's war out there.

I don't expect things to get better until everyone's phone is their personal server and cryptographic root of trust, and this is exposed to non-technicals in a way which neither scares them nor screws them over. Once civilization accomplishes that, I reckon things will be fine once again.

EDIT: "Heck, even Instagram had a horrific "mirror world" incident where the moderation bit got flipped on a number of images which ordinary users were exposed to." I don't think I've heard about this before, but I must admit I find it completely hilarious - besides obviously sad and horrifying.

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