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Apple forced to make major cuts to Vision Pro headset production plans

ft.com

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Re: Apple forced to make major cuts to Vision Pro headset production plans

#281

Post by catiopatio »

Dalewyn wrote: post #260
JohnFen wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apple does UX well. I hear people say this often enough to question my own sanity, because I don't find Apple's UX to be very good at all. I find it confusing and it makes things difficult to figure out.

The problem is you aren't their intended audience. I too thought Apple UIs were confoundingly bad, but one day I decided to take a step back and approach it as any ordinary man would. I pretended I knew nothing and cared nothing about computers. You know what happened? It was intuitive. It was consistent. It was harmonious. My mind was blown. Apple UIs are made for the ordinary man, not for tech nerds and professiona…

I’d suggest you didn’t look at it from the perspective of an “ordinary man”, but instead, you dropped your longstanding assumptions from using Windows.

Re: Apple forced to make major cuts to Vision Pro headset production plans

#282

Post by semi-extrinsic »

rbanffy wrote: post #250
semi-extrinsic wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I quite frankly don't understand what makes this the most advanced consumer tech ever. What about mRNA vaccines? Centimetre-accuracy differential GPS navigation systems that fit the palm of your hand, like the uBlox f9p? 3D printers like the Ultimaker S5 that can feed carbon fiber thread into the print? High-end cameras like the Sony A1? What is the defining feature(s) that makes a new VR headset so much more advance…

It really pushes the envelope on many fronts - thermals, displays, materials, sensor integration, specialised hardware… I would never expect any rollout like that to go as planned.

If you replace "display" with "image sensor", the Sony A1 pushes the envelope on all those fronts as well.

And of course Apple is buying the displays for their headset from Sony, so who is doing the envelope pushing there?

Re: Apple forced to make major cuts to Vision Pro headset production plans

#283

Post by czzr »

throwuwu wrote: post #278
wcarss wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a person who wanted VR monitors, I backed the original Oculus Dev Kit 1 a decade ago, and it was terrible for that purpose. So I got the DK2, and the Vive, and the Index afterwards, trying each. The Index pretty much has it -- it's doable. I can read comfortably in there, or watch a youtube video and not feel like I'm getting some grainy, crappy version, but it's just barely there. It's very heavy and hot, though,…

There are other high resolution headsets on the market right now at comparable or less cost than the vision pro.

Such as?

Re: Apple forced to make major cuts to Vision Pro headset production plans

#284

Post by antifa »

semi-extrinsic wrote: post #242
retskrad wrote: post #197

Based on the articles I've read about this product, it might be the most advanced consumer tech we've ever seen. It would be a surprise if the production was a smooth sailing.

I quite frankly don't understand what makes this the most advanced consumer tech ever. What about mRNA vaccines? Centimetre-accuracy differential GPS navigation systems that fit the palm of your hand, like the uBlox f9p? 3D printers like the Ultimaker S5 that can feed carbon fiber thread into the print? High-end cameras like the Sony A1? What is the defining feature(s) that makes a new VR headset so much more advance…

The Apple Vision Pro is much more advanced than a random 2023 Intel laptop or any Android device.

You mentioned some cool tech stuff, but it's all too categorically random and distantly unrelated for a fair and meaningful comparison.

Re: Apple forced to make major cuts to Vision Pro headset production plans

#285

Post by antifa »

Filligree wrote: post #219
Hamuko wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure what the demand frenzy is for an unproven $3500 VR headset with no killer app during an economic slowdown.

I'll be getting one to use for coding. One person does not a demand frenzy make, but having 'infinite' monitor space is a killer app to me.

$3k is a lot of money and I already bought 4k monitors, desk, etc..

MacOS seems to have pretty spotty monitor settings stability, I'm regularly having to fix a setting that was forgotten for no reason.

Activating PIP mode on my 4k monitor causes OSX to shit itself as it rearranges everything, which is odd because there is no perceptible change to OSX's understanding of my monitors. This means my 4k monitor is somehow reporting PIP as a change in monitors (basically snitching on me) when I'm PIPing in an unrelated device.

Ubuntu, Debian, Garuda don't have this behavior. They remember settings better and don't shit themselves when PIP gets activated.

For reasons like this, I'm skeptical that Apple Vision Pro will do a great job at the monitor replacement angle.

However, I'll follow that closely and probably wait for a gen 2.

Re: Apple forced to make major cuts to Vision Pro headset production plans

#286

Post by smoldesu »

czzr wrote: post #283
throwuwu wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are other high resolution headsets on the market right now at comparable or less cost than the vision pro.

Such as?

Pimax 8k has been around for years: https://pimax.com/product/vision-8k-x/

Re: Apple forced to make major cuts to Vision Pro headset production plans

#287

Post by jitl »

throwuwu wrote: post #278
wcarss wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a person who wanted VR monitors, I backed the original Oculus Dev Kit 1 a decade ago, and it was terrible for that purpose. So I got the DK2, and the Vive, and the Index afterwards, trying each. The Index pretty much has it -- it's doable. I can read comfortably in there, or watch a youtube video and not feel like I'm getting some grainy, crappy version, but it's just barely there. It's very heavy and hot, though,…

There are other high resolution headsets on the market right now at comparable or less cost than the vision pro.

Apple’s headset claims to be >4K per eye, which is what the “8k” headsets of today offer.

But they don’t have as compelling latency, hand tracking, or app development toolkits

Re: Apple forced to make major cuts to Vision Pro headset production plans

#288

Post by jitl »

happymellon wrote: post #270
crooked-v wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Higher quality screens at a lower weight-on-your-head than anything else on the market.

1. There is only so big before you have to crane your neck, which existing screens can reach. 2. My existing monitor is already really light on my neck. I don't see any benefits.

maybe there are no benefits for you. I’m going to get one since I have 450sqft total and nowhere to put a monitor.

Re: Apple forced to make major cuts to Vision Pro headset production plans

#289

Post by pr0zac »

3cats-in-a-coat wrote: post #241
jwells89 wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its fidelity is considerably higher with a 4k+ MicroOLED panel for each eye, which eliminates screen door effect, aliasing, etc making use cases that involve reading a lot of text in it more feasible. Its passthrough is also extremely low latency at 12ms, and it’s built with a full M2 SoC which is a good deal beefier than anything integrated into other standalone headsets.

I just want to point out that despite this is one of the highest resolution VR screens on the planet right now, the pixel density would have to double once again in order to achieve Retina resolution. This is why Apple doesn't say "Retina" when talking about Vision Pro. For people who think they'll be designing and coding on Vision Pro virtual screens all day might be disappointed.

Never going to be able to justify the current price but I’m still really interested in playing with it to see if I think they hit my personal bar.

I’m perfectly comfortable spending 8+ hours in a day writing code on a non-4K screen (widescreen with the pixel density of a 27in 1440p) and based on what I’ve used in the past could probably handle anything as good as a 27in 1080p monitor with the right fonts.

That said, I do find the screen door effect on my Valve Index rather distracting and can’t use it for longer than an hour or two without risking a headache, especially if I am reading any text (tried watching a movie with subtitles and oh boy).

So I don’t think retina resolution is necessary for work (at least for me personally) but it does seem like having the screens so close and completely covering vision does increase sensitivity to picture quality so I may be wrong about that.

Re: Apple forced to make major cuts to Vision Pro headset production plans

#290

Post by throwuwu »

jitl wrote: post #287
throwuwu wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are other high resolution headsets on the market right now at comparable or less cost than the vision pro.

Apple’s headset claims to be >4K per eye, which is what the “8k” headsets of today offer. But they don’t have as compelling latency, hand tracking, or app development toolkits

wdym by latency? From what I can find the vision pro is 90hz which is the minimum for sota headsets with 120 being targeted by higher end devices. There are lots of hand tracking solutions for headsets that don’t have it built in but for a lot of interactions you want more than one button anyways. I’d rather have my pick of engines and SDKs through the open XR standard then be stuck with whatever Apple cooks up.
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