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Apple forced to make major cuts to Vision Pro headset production plans

ft.com

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Re: Apple forced to make major cuts to Vision Pro headset production plans

#251

Post by ungamedplayer »

aeyes wrote: post #245
jwells89 wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its fidelity is considerably higher with a 4k+ MicroOLED panel for each eye, which eliminates screen door effect, aliasing, etc making use cases that involve reading a lot of text in it more feasible. Its passthrough is also extremely low latency at 12ms, and it’s built with a full M2 SoC which is a good deal beefier than anything integrated into other standalone headsets.

But in about 3 more generations all of these features will be the standard in 500$ headsets. Just being better by making a device more expensive doesn't lead to more sales. What's the killer app for this device which other devices on the market don't support today?

The killer app is the brand. People trust and furiously consume the brand because of mental conditioning.

Re: Apple forced to make major cuts to Vision Pro headset production plans

#252

Post by 3cats-in-a-coat »

Mountain_Skies wrote: post #207

While I'm sure Apple would prefer a full scale production run, limited availability for a new product often can create a demand frenzy that is overall beneficial as production is able to ramp up.

It may create demand for the hardware, but it will diminish demand by developers to make apps for it, knowing the audience will be small. And Apple has an ecosystem to bootstrap here. If they fail, the whole platform will die.

I'll be curious how they navigate the difficulties of getting this category to self-sustainability.

Re: Apple forced to make major cuts to Vision Pro headset production plans

#253

Post by jwells89 »

aeyes wrote: post #245
jwells89 wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its fidelity is considerably higher with a 4k+ MicroOLED panel for each eye, which eliminates screen door effect, aliasing, etc making use cases that involve reading a lot of text in it more feasible. Its passthrough is also extremely low latency at 12ms, and it’s built with a full M2 SoC which is a good deal beefier than anything integrated into other standalone headsets.

But in about 3 more generations all of these features will be the standard in 500$ headsets. Just being better by making a device more expensive doesn't lead to more sales. What's the killer app for this device which other devices on the market don't support today?

Though I’d love to see the price of these specs to come down that quickly I’m not optimistic they will. Those MicroOLED panels in particular are extremely difficult to manufacture with terrible yield.

I don’t know that a killer app for it exists, but with its built-in developer base it’s inheriting from iOS thanks to using the same APIs (a dev base that’s notoriously fast to pick up new features, at that), I believe the chances of a third party dev finding a killer app are significantly higher than with prior AR platforms.

Re: Apple forced to make major cuts to Vision Pro headset production plans

#254

Post by amelius »

ilinx wrote: post #138
JohnFen wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apple does UX well. I hear people say this often enough to question my own sanity, because I don't find Apple's UX to be very good at all. I find it confusing and it makes things difficult to figure out.

Could you provide an example of the sort of thing you’re talking about? Because I’m the type of person the other commenter was talking about (I’ve been in the Apple ecosystem for a very long time), and I feel I’m too close to it to have a reasonably objective viewpoint on it one way or the other.

Like how are the "maximize window" and "minimize window" buttons even supposed to work? (That traffic light on top of your windows)

Or why don't we have Copy and Paste keys on our keyboards. Or Undo and Redo keys?

Or why is the USB drive in the back of an Apple monitor?

Or why is everything so opinionated?

Or that mouse that could only be charged with the cable plugged into the bottom so you couldn't use it?

Or in earlier versions of OSX, you had to upgrade the OS by starting iTunes (wtf?) ...

Re: Apple forced to make major cuts to Vision Pro headset production plans

#255

Post by pavlov »

jjallen wrote: post #229
crooked-v wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The headset is the early access product.

How would anything else be the early access product?

In the past Apple has sent out early access dev kits that were quite different from the final consumer product.

When they switched from PowerPC to x86 in 2005, the dev kit was a Pentium 4 motherboard in a Power Mac G5 case:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Developer_Transition_Kit

Apple never used any Pentium CPUs in Macs except for this loaner model. The first Intel Mac desktop was an iMac, so completely different form factor.

Re: Apple forced to make major cuts to Vision Pro headset production plans

#256

Post by rbanffy »

aeyes wrote: post #245
jwells89 wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its fidelity is considerably higher with a 4k+ MicroOLED panel for each eye, which eliminates screen door effect, aliasing, etc making use cases that involve reading a lot of text in it more feasible. Its passthrough is also extremely low latency at 12ms, and it’s built with a full M2 SoC which is a good deal beefier than anything integrated into other standalone headsets.

But in about 3 more generations all of these features will be the standard in 500$ headsets. Just being better by making a device more expensive doesn't lead to more sales. What's the killer app for this device which other devices on the market don't support today?

Maybe, but, by then, Apple will have had the marked for themselves for some time.

Also worth noting this is not a “headset” but a computer (“headtop”?) in a different format. Think of it not as buying a headset for your gaming rig but as a laptop replacement.

Re: Apple forced to make major cuts to Vision Pro headset production plans

#257

Post by rbanffy »

3cats-in-a-coat wrote: post #252
Mountain_Skies wrote: post #207

While I'm sure Apple would prefer a full scale production run, limited availability for a new product often can create a demand frenzy that is overall beneficial as production is able to ramp up.

It may create demand for the hardware, but it will diminish demand by developers to make apps for it, knowing the audience will be small. And Apple has an ecosystem to bootstrap here. If they fail, the whole platform will die. I'll be curious how they navigate the difficulties of getting this category to self-sustainability.

It’s good, however, it’ll be able to run macOS and iOS apps on virtual flat panels.

I haven’t looked into the SDK and what it offers, but I read it’s not full room immersive as some gaming sets are.

Re: Apple forced to make major cuts to Vision Pro headset production plans

#258

Post by krisoft »

goosedragons wrote: post #160
trws wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m actually curious about specifics here for macOS aside from things like hidden scroll bars. Mainly because I find it to be one of the most discoverable. If you go into the ‘help’ menu in any application, you get a search box that searches all the menus of the application, if a shortcut exists for the action it’s listed alongside it. Admittedly Qt and KDE can do this too, but only for QT apps, while on macOS it’s e…

How do you show hidden folders in Finder? You literally have to memorize a keyboard shortcut. How do you switch apps in full screen mode, you need to know trackpad gestures or keyboard shortcuts. Every post like 2004 addition to MacOS seems to be reliant on trackpad gestures to the point using the operating system with a mouse is a negative. The search bar in the menu is fine if there is a menu to search. IIRC or at…

> How do you show hidden folders in Finder?

You don't. They are hidden. If you are supposed to see them they shouldn't be hidden.

I understand that other operating systems make a different choice about this, but that doesn't make their choice is the correct one.

Re: Apple forced to make major cuts to Vision Pro headset production plans

#259

Post by arijun »

semi-extrinsic wrote: post #242
retskrad wrote: post #197

Based on the articles I've read about this product, it might be the most advanced consumer tech we've ever seen. It would be a surprise if the production was a smooth sailing.

I quite frankly don't understand what makes this the most advanced consumer tech ever. What about mRNA vaccines? Centimetre-accuracy differential GPS navigation systems that fit the palm of your hand, like the uBlox f9p? 3D printers like the Ultimaker S5 that can feed carbon fiber thread into the print? High-end cameras like the Sony A1? What is the defining feature(s) that makes a new VR headset so much more advance…

I don’t know that I agree with the wording of the parent post, but I understand the sentiment. It does include a lot of hardware that is relatively cutting edge, and the insanely low latency on the system is reflected in that.

While calling it “the most advanced” might be a bit of a stretch, the sophistication of the hardware was something that I wouldn’t have previously thought possible. Some of your counter examples fall short of that complexity. The actual mRNA vaccines are pretty technologically simple, the complexity in differential gps is in its algorithms rather than hardware, and is that camera really groundbreaking (genuine question).

Re: Apple forced to make major cuts to Vision Pro headset production plans

#260

Post by Dalewyn »

JohnFen wrote: post #125
Waterluvian wrote: post #22

I am very pessimistic about the future of VR beyond it being super nice for niche cases. But I think there’s something fundamentally good about: 1) Apple taking a stab at it, because it’s the kind of thing where UX really matters and Apple does UX well. 2) Apple not being trapped in the “if we can’t sell a billion of them then why even bother?” mindset that so many other companies get trapped in, often because they’r…

> Apple does UX well. I hear people say this often enough to question my own sanity, because I don't find Apple's UX to be very good at all. I find it confusing and it makes things difficult to figure out.

The problem is you aren't their intended audience.

I too thought Apple UIs were confoundingly bad, but one day I decided to take a step back and approach it as any ordinary man would. I pretended I knew nothing and cared nothing about computers.

You know what happened? It was intuitive. It was consistent. It was harmonious. My mind was blown.

Apple UIs are made for the ordinary man, not for tech nerds and professionals like us. Forget alt-tabbing and window managing, the vast majority of people on the planet don't know and don't care about computers; and it's those people Apple caters to.

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